Surfin' Safari: Comment on The Improved Web Kit

Comments: The Improved Web Kit

Any chance of seeing Safari for Windows anytime soon? Is it possible for someone to port it over using WebKit?

Posted by Scott at June 7, 2005 10:37 AM

I tried to build the web kit using Xcode 2.1 which I installed yesterday.

The compiler aborted with a bus error. Is that a known problem when using Xcode 2.1 or could I have done something wrong?

I have a Dual 2 GHz PowerPC G5, running Mac OS 10.4.1.

Posted by Bjorn Gustavsson at June 7, 2005 11:17 AM

I'm also having a problem with XCode 2.1 (now wishing that I had waited to upgrade), but I'm not getting a bus error, I'm getting:

/usr/bin/libtool: can't locate file for: -lWebKitSystemInterface
/usr/bin/libtool: file: -lWebKitSystemInterface is not an object file (not allowed in a library)

I think there are just a few incompatibilities since xcodebuild notified me that WebKit was created on an older version.

Posted by Michael Buckley at June 7, 2005 11:22 AM

Proton has posted fixes for people trying to build Webkit with XCode 2.1:

http://www.wiretapped.net/~proton/webkitbuilding.html

Posted by neilio at June 7, 2005 12:03 PM

I compiled WebKit a few hours ago and it works good, but how do I replace it with the old WebKit Version so the new version will always be used?
I think WebKit.framework replaces /System/Library/Frameworks/WebKit.framework, but what´s about the WebCore.framework folder? Didn´t find those in /System/Library/Frameworks/

Posted by MetalSnake at June 7, 2005 1:06 PM

I successfully built WebKit today. The first thing I tried was the Acid2 Test and I found out that the reference rendering is not exactly the same as the one Safari renders.

Around the nose there is a 1px red line that is not present on the reference rendering.

Don't know if this is already known but in doubt I thought I should mention it.

Posted by Paulo Jorge Góis at June 7, 2005 1:50 PM

Compiled version seems snappier - has resolved a few minor compatibility issues.

From a web development perspectiver, I have one concern which is that it is hard enough to support IE 5, 5.5, 6, NS7, NS8, Opera, Firefox, Safari 1, 1.1, 1,2 , 1.3, 2 and now nightly builds...

I am delighed that people can build their own versions, however this does complicate the process of testing further.

Posted by Finn at June 7, 2005 2:32 PM

I'd like to see Safari support custom system components (eg: buttons, popups) like in FireFox. I know nothing about programming, but I think that's important to maintain compatible with the rest of the world.

Posted by Marc Pope at June 7, 2005 4:25 PM

The Acid2 test reliably crashes the CVS version of WebKit when opened in a new (unselected) tab.

Posted by Simon at June 7, 2005 4:29 PM

Running update-webkit seems to have cleaned up some problems I was seeing.

Should it be of any concern that I'm seeing

setenv MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET 10.3

on a 10.4 system?

Posted by Jonathan Lundell at June 7, 2005 4:41 PM

Build takes quite a long time - I look forward to the nightly builds mentioned on the webkit site. My only concern is that the "run-safari" script seems fragile to me. If the build settings are at all different (keeping build projects in the project folder, for instance), or the resulting frameworks are moved at all, or Safari is moved, then the whole thing dies. All of that just to set an environment variable and run Safari?

I'd recommend an Applescript that does the following:
1) Checks for the files where expected.
2) If not found, ask the user to locate them.
3) Store the result in a property.
4) Launch Safari.
On subsequent runs, the script would remember where the frameworks or Safari have moved to and properly load them. It would also be simple to place on the Script Menu.

I'm sick at the moment, but once I'm more up to speed I'll try to whip something up and submit it.

Posted by Joshua Ochs at June 7, 2005 7:38 PM

Sadly, placing a copy of the run-safari script on the Script Menu doesn't work. If I cd ~/Library/Scripts/ and run it in the Terminal, it's fine. Running from the Script Menu appears to do nothing.

Posted by Joshua Ochs at June 7, 2005 7:48 PM

Simon: I'm seeing the same behavior - I submitted a bug report via the crash reporter.

Finn: This is no different from Firefox/Mozilla/Camino nightlies. I for one am overjoyed at the prospect of gaining access to the most recent Safari possible and not having to wait months to see the work Dave does here show up on my desktop.

Bravo Dave, and the entire Safari team!

Posted by Joshua Ochs at June 7, 2005 7:50 PM

The build went fine, and I can now see acid2 in all its glory. :) Thanks for doing this, new site and all!

However, scrolling with the mouse wheel makes the face fall apart. Is this a bug?

Posted by Jonathan at June 8, 2005 2:43 AM

Jonathan: I suspect mousewheel-scrolling scrolls the iframes or divs used in the page which is why you scroll part of the face? :)

Posted by Sander at June 8, 2005 3:34 AM

Hi,

David, I must say that the move from Apple is very welcome on the KDE side. Thank you for resolving the situation.

It seems that it does not only benefit KDE, Apple already has received fixes for Safari, which I am pleased to hear.

I hope that this project is showing that there is an interest in working closer with the community, and that Apple envision the move on more projects.

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Posted by Anon at June 8, 2005 9:47 AM

Now, what´s about the real installation of a compiled webkit? What do I have to do to use the compiled webkit by default instead of use the run-safari script?

Posted by MetalSnake at June 8, 2005 1:39 PM

Any chance of finally seing the "enclosure" RSS tag supported in Safari 2.0, and that Safari does not automaticaly shows a FeedBurner page as a feed but standard as HTML with the RSS icon (which, by the way, should not be blue ;)). Please let me know via Email... I do the only french Podcast for the mac community and people not knowing anything about podcast here wonders what happens at Feedburner (they don't get the iPodder thing, I see it in my stats). Thanks ! PS: Talked about that on my last post on the site (in french... my website www.stuffmc.com is in english)

Posted by StuFF at June 8, 2005 1:54 PM

Now, its finally possible to readily port to Win32!

In fact, JavaScriptCore is already ported, granted with some changes (PCRE 5.0 instead of the one included by Apple, Some platform specific code to implement certain things, and the KJS garbage collector instead of the one in JSC).

Now to port WebCore ;)

Posted by Justin Haygood at June 8, 2005 7:18 PM

I'm sick at the moment, but once I'm more up to speed I'll try to whip something up and submit it.
However, scrolling with the mouse wheel makes the face fall apart. Is this a bug?

Posted by Luxury Guider the Lifestyle and leading up-market lifestyle portal at June 9, 2005 12:02 AM

Offtopic request for Safari (not Webkit, I guess):

Anything downloaded that goes through the "Download window" gets the origin url stored as metadata (check in the Finder through menu File>Show Info>More info).

Things dragged to the desktop do not, though. Consequently, pretty much no image downloaded gets the origin url metadata (which is usually done through drag and drop). Drag and dropping and image to the "download window" does make Safari to store the origin url metadata into an image file (or anything that a link points to).

Since that metadata is pretty handy, could you please fix Safari so that a future release also embeds "origin url" metadata on objects dragged from a web page to the Finder?

Thanks for an excellent browser.

Posted by elmimmo at June 9, 2005 4:23 AM

My how I wish I could code... hopefully someone will add clickable labels when encountering a tag. :)

Posted by Ryan Thrash at June 9, 2005 9:14 AM

hmmm... label for="x" (enclosed in gt/lt brackets)

Posted by Ryan Thrash at June 9, 2005 9:16 AM

Ryan - The bug database is open, so you can track that here:

http://bugzilla.opendarwin.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3244

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Posted by bodazhang at June 9, 2005 6:21 PM

Nice work/policy shift, guys!

Meanwhile, I remember a discussion a while back about the tab-switching keys (cmd-shift left/right) in Safari, and the fact that they interfere with beginning/end of line select... Can't find the post, however, so if you'll forgive the slight OTness, I'll comment here...

IMHO, cmd-option-arrows work well for previous/next tab, and I don't think they're used for anything else.

On a related note, any plans for Apple to roll out Safari-style tabs as a standard interface component?

And while on the subject of tabs, I keep thinking it looks odd having them pointing downwards, that is, connected to the static part of the window. While I agree that the address bar (and also bookmarks bar, I guess) are changed by switching tabs, surely the tabs are more heavily related to the page content? I would have thought the solution would be to turn the tabs "upside-down", and put them at the very top of the window (under the title bar)... Or is there a UI principle I'm not seeing here?

Thanks, Dave -- Safari's a great browser -- I love it!

Posted by John Aldis at June 10, 2005 2:23 AM

John Aldis : If you don't know those tabs already, you should have a look at AdiumX or Colloquy.
They simply rock, you can drag them for reordering, or to attach / detach a window to the tab bar.

I would like to see a similar concept in safari as well :)

Posted by Mathieu Massebœuf at June 10, 2005 2:42 AM

John Aldis: Safari 2.0 (and 1.3.9, I think) fixed that issue. Cmd-shift-arrow changes tabs as long as you aren't in a text field, and Cmd-shift-squarebracket will always change.

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Why does nobody answer my question? :((

Posted by MetalSnake at June 10, 2005 4:05 PM

Because if you're able to build this you should be able to figure that out.

Posted by Jer at June 10, 2005 6:48 PM

Metalsnake, not exactly what you wanted, but check out http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2005/6/8/483

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Wow, you've got TWO blogspam comments..sorry man. Any insight on WebKit performance on the experimental Apple-tel box?

Posted by Someone at June 12, 2005 8:48 PM

As a 20 year Mac user and 5 year web designer testing across IE, KHTML, Gecko and Opera cores through OS X, Windows and Debian Linux Sarge, I have no idea why Safari alone fails Eric Meyer's 15.2.5 font CSS test suite:
http://meyerweb.com/eric/css/tests/css2/sec15-02-05.htm
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/fonts.html#propdef-font

F'cryin' out loud, the W3C spec even mentions Charcoal font as the example.

Matching user settings is an accessibility feature, not a gimmick. Loosey, you got some 'splainin' to do...

Posted by Andrew Roazen at June 13, 2005 8:46 PM

Nate: Thanks. Actually, I already have 10.3.9. My problem is that cmd-shift-[] is not exactly the intuitive choice -- I'd also seen comments somewhere that some international keyboard layouts have problems with it (places that need shift to type ] anyway, I think).

My suggestion was an attempt to go back to the intuitive nature of cmd-shift-arrow, without any conflict with text fields -- I find it confusing having cmd-shift-arrow doing two different things, depending whether I'm in a field or not.

Thanks for your suggestion, though.

Posted by John Aldis at June 14, 2005 6:43 AM

Is there a chance to get some kind of cookie management into Safari?

Posted by mat at June 17, 2005 3:28 AM

I have seen comments elsewhere to the effect that, although the current version of Safari is improved somewhat with regard to its ability to support WYSIWYG editors like TinyMCE, the implementation is still not sufficient for an acceptable level of functionality. Any information about this issue would be great...

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