Surfin' Safari: Comment on Say Hello to WebKit!

Comments: Say Hello to WebKit!

I am impressed! I had not expected this. excellent product, now with excellent community support.

Posted by rupee at June 7, 2005 12:38 AM

Wow!!

Posted by Namo at June 7, 2005 12:40 AM

This is insanely great. Never let it be said that the folks at Apple don't listen. This is just terrific. Kudos. I'm building from cvs as we speak. How friggin cool is that?

Posted by Chris at June 7, 2005 12:50 AM

Great Hyatt! The KDE developers will be very happy now.

I'll guess we see people publishing nightly builds of Safari soon, and next someone create the SafariKnight ;P

Posted by Andreas Åkre Solberg at June 7, 2005 12:59 AM

Please! change the background of the header on the webkit page, I get very confused when a not-rss page look identical to rss-mode.

Posted by Andreas Åkre Solberg at June 7, 2005 1:02 AM

Well done. I can accept this as the 'one last thing' that Steve evidently ran out of time to announce. (:

Posted by vans at June 7, 2005 1:05 AM

Already compiled. Just great. Thanks.

Posted by Chris at June 7, 2005 1:25 AM

This is some awesome news! Congratulations, and thanks for listening and acting on the criticism you received. Here's to a pleasant collaboration between KDE and Apple in the near future!

Posted by bsander at June 7, 2005 1:26 AM

Wow great, I agree : it's huge.
What I'm wondering about is new features and ehancements.
Does this new place will allow us to, for example, add XUL support to Webkit ?

Posted by renaud at June 7, 2005 1:35 AM

I probably won't be using the framework but as an interested developer I'm very impressed that you did this. You basically addressed all the concerns the KDE people had, which is much more than you needed to do.

Posted by Nicholas FitzRoy-Dale at June 7, 2005 1:41 AM

I'd just like to announce that I am the first person to successfully build, compile and run the tip-of-tree WebKit :)

Posted by cbarrett at June 7, 2005 1:51 AM

Ooh! Safari for Windows!

Posted by Greg K Nicholson at June 7, 2005 1:53 AM

Outstanding! I really hope some bright spark uses this to figure out a way of building older versions that can run simultaneously on the same Mac - at the moment, if web developers want to test their applications in older versions of Safari they need multiple OS X installs.

Posted by Simon Willison at June 7, 2005 2:26 AM

hopefully someone will now (finally) be able to fix the shockwave 3d offset bug that has been there for 5 years or more

Posted by Joe at June 7, 2005 3:13 AM

This is amazing! I'd never expect to see anything like this, especially from Apple - outstanding work!

Posted by Phil at June 7, 2005 4:18 AM

Ok, so it's open source now. But with what license? GPL?

Posted by Michael Lehn at June 7, 2005 5:10 AM

No luck building it here. Perhaps a result of upgrading Xcode to 2.1 yesterday?

JavaScriptCore.build/Deployment/JavaScriptCore.build/DerivedSources/grammar.cpp.h: No such file or directory

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Posted by anon at June 7, 2005 5:52 AM

Alex, I too upgraded to XCode 2.1, and I'm getting the same error building. The actual error is from bison a couple of lines above what you quoted:

kjs/grammar.y:134.7-12: %type redeclaration for CallExpr
kjs/grammar.y:125.7-12: first declaration

I tried removing the second CallExpr declaration, and I then got:

kjs/grammar.y: conflicts: 8 shift/reduce, 9 reduce/reduce

Posted by rohanl at June 7, 2005 5:55 AM

Michael and the anonymous juvenile:

It has not recently become open-source. It has always been open-source. This change is merely access to the CVS.

The license is LGPL for WebCore and JavaScriptCore. WebKit is under a less restrictive license that looks at first glance to be GPL-compatible.

http://developer.apple.com/darwin/projects/webcore/

You can also verify this by checking out the code, which includes a copy of the license.

Posted by Jim at June 7, 2005 6:31 AM

Rohani: got it working with some hackery. There are 2 problems: 1) xcode 2.1 layout has changed and I made to make some symlinks to give it what it expects 2) bison 2.0 causes build to fail.

They're aware of both of these and are working on it.

Posted by Alex at June 7, 2005 6:57 AM

Will there be nightlies as in Firefox and Camino for non coders to test and be able to comment on? If so where will we find them for testing?

thanks. . . Dr. G

Posted by Dr. G at June 7, 2005 7:18 AM

Hum, I'm wondering if the bugzilla.opendarwin.org thing for WebKit is not a complete bullshit as it occurred to be for Darwin. AFAIK, the guys at opendarwin.org at one point told us to refile our bug report to the Radar base because Apple was not going to take them into consideration otherwise.

Posted by Darth Sidious at June 7, 2005 7:35 AM

Hi,

I just wanted to say "Thanks!" for doing the extremely right and nice thing ;-)

Would you, or any body in a position to do so, also extend this thank you to anybody involved from Management and other groups of the company?

Have a very nice day.

Posted by Camel at June 7, 2005 7:37 AM

1. This is great!
2. On my first try it failed to build (linker couldn't find libxml2-WebCore, which was in the derived sources directroy). I then changed the build products path to not contain a space and it worked.

Posted by Mitz Pettel at June 7, 2005 7:42 AM

Wow. Just wow.
Fantastic news, and the layout of the site is excellent as a bonus.

Really, wow.

Matt

Posted by Matt at June 7, 2005 7:43 AM

Nice job. This looks like a really well done job of working with the open source community. One of the things that all of the people flaming Apple didn't realize is that before, the only people Apple were hurting were themselves, because they weren't getting anyone else to work on their code. Now it's time for me to check out the source, see if I can fix a few of the bugs I've noticed (or see if they're already fixed), and submit some patches.

Posted by Brian Campbell at June 7, 2005 7:48 AM

Have to wonder why this didn't happen sooner; it's just such an obvious solution. Still, kudos for doing so. It will be better for everyone this way.

Posted by Phil at June 7, 2005 8:23 AM

Nice job, sir. Your team actually listened to the criticisms, when the Apple corporate culturally easier thing would have been to ignore this whole KDE flap. Way to go.

Posted by Frodo at June 7, 2005 8:58 AM

Thanks folks! WebKit just got a lot more attractive.

Robb

Posted by Robb Beal at June 7, 2005 9:06 AM

Thanks dave/apple!

This is great, assuming it's using a GPL-compatible license.

Posted by waldo at June 7, 2005 9:34 AM

excellent work. was able to download, compile, and use new webkit in under 30 minutes. kudos!

Posted by bjackson at June 7, 2005 12:57 PM

/usr/bin/libtool: can't locate file for: -lWebKitSystemInterface
/usr/bin/libtool: file: -lWebKitSystemInterface is not an object file (not allowed in a library)
** BUILD FAILED **

Oh well.

Posted by Jeremy at June 7, 2005 2:04 PM

This is fantastic news - great to see Apple make a positive change towards opening up its development approach.

It would have been all too easy for Apple and the HHTML/KDE developers to fall out and go their sperate ways - well done for not letting egos get in the way.

A few important additions here would be;

1) Nightly builds of Safari (for the Xcode virgins)

2) CSS/HTML discussion forum for web developers to report and discuss bugs/layout problems

3) An intel version of Safari for Windows users - This is very important if you want all the windows web developers to create compatible websites.

4) Try to get a project going with macromedia/Adobe to improve flash playback on OSX which is terrible.

Thanks for all the hard work David - good to see people taking an open approach.

Posted by finn at June 7, 2005 2:24 PM

Yay! Now we can start porting it to Win32 for some lovely windows safari-like action. :)

Posted by Alex at June 7, 2005 2:30 PM

Kudos to Apple and WebKit team for making this happen!!

Posted by pb at June 7, 2005 4:43 PM

Thank you for listening and doing the right thing. My opinion of Apple just went up considerably. If they continue to engage the open source community, I personally will feel a lot better about recommending their gear at work.

Thanks from a staunch KDE user and a proponent of standards and transparency.

Posted by Comandante Marcos at June 7, 2005 5:59 PM

I am sincerely thankful for this move. I am a huge KDE supporter and have been since the 1.x releases. If Apple follows through with this initiative I will consider purchasing Apple x86 hardware in the future.

Posted by Bobby Z at June 7, 2005 6:06 PM

finn:

check out this video of next gen flash... it may not run as fast as the windows version of F8, but at those speeds differences will be irrelevant.

http://www.moock.org/blog/archives/000146.html

Posted by duncan at June 7, 2005 6:09 PM

Just to clarify a few misunderstangs:

1) WebCore and JavaScriptCore were both open-source before this, and are under the LGPL.
2) WebKit was not open-source before this, and is now available under the BSD license.
3) The Safari/WebKit team appear to be committed to dealing with Bugzilla. The experiences with the wider "Darwin" project should not be taken as representative of this situation.

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still can't watch videos on ifilm.com in Safari in the latest webkit...

Posted by Reck at June 8, 2005 12:05 PM

Before checking out the code, you may want to be sure you have compression turned on for CVS to speed up the download.

This should do the trick:

echo "cvs -z3" >> ~/.cvsrc

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What so you actually need to be running for this?

The build documentation says:

"The cvs tool is included with these developer tools that come with Mac OS X. You must install these developer tools before you can check out the code. They should be found on a CD or DVD that came with your version of Tiger or Panther."

So, can you build this under Panther?

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I kid. This is great news and I'm very glad. Only not as glad as I am about the iCab update's improved css support. No offense WebCore et al are great, you've all done great work there and this move bodes for increased support and development for the Webcore elements, but the Safari browser, well in terms of user interface and features…it sucks. It's as if you didn't get the memo that Mosaic died and web browsers evolved in the past decade. Ditto that regarding gecko and Mozilla/Netscape/Firefox, a great engine powering ridiculously bad browsers. Omniweb and Opera at least try to push the browser experience forward, too bad they're as bad at the basics as Safari, Camino or Firefox, so they aren't 'real' browsers as far as I'm concerned just demos like TrailBlazer of features I'd like to see in a real browser. Webkit and gecko probably still kick iCab every which at rendering markup correctly and quickly, and I think iCab's features and UI could use a lot of polish, but IMO between iCab and all other web browsers, as a browser iCab's the one that doesn't suck.

Posted by M at June 17, 2005 9:18 AM

No, it does not (yet) work under Panther. There are several 10.4 specific calls that prevents a successfull build on 10.3. See http://bugzilla.opendarwin.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3354 for a list of showstoppers.

Posted by Koen at June 29, 2005 8:09 PM

Koen: thanks, I won't beat my head against a wall trying to put the build environment together until I have Tiger in hand.

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