Priceless. Asa you are simply hilarious.

Now that I think of it, you are a bit of a troll. But hey, what do I care. *Hands asa fire extinguisher*

I'm really not sure how to interpret this.. o_O If Asa wanted to *TRULY* congratulate Opera, I don't think he would *also* point out how you have 15x as many downloads.. I was really beginning to think Asa was done with this nonsense.

However I think, for now, I agree with Jason's assesment in the previous comment.

"I was really beginning to think Asa was done with this nonsense."

I find it quite entertaining.

A Mozilla driver who's posting stuff on *his* personal weblog is certainly not a troll.

Opera fanboys posting stuff on a *Mozilla driver's* personal weblog however....

After all, Opera fanboys have the free choice to not read the Mozilla driver's weblog. If you want Opera advocacy, go somewhere else.

Where does this guy get his numbers from, though? There's nothing on Opera's pages.

tveidt: Asa knows that his snide remarks will be noticed by Opera fans. What is it with Mozilla representatives and their hatred against other browsers? Look at the story on Ben Goodger's less than clever remark about Netscape 8...

From BlakeRoss.com
{
There are people out there who will caution us against celebration for fear of getting too cocky. That’s wrong. Cocky is when you stop celebrating because the millions start to blend together and your users become a figure on a spreadsheet. We know damned well we have to keep improving the Web experience or we’ll die. The fifty millionth downloader matters as much as the fiftieth.
}

Asa: your link to the Fx download counter is incorrect. It also links to the Opera blog. :-)

Asa: Did you mean to link to the Opera download info or did you really mean to link them to the Firefox download count? You're certainly welcome to link my lil' counter extension but I guess that would require our friends in Opera to download FF. ;)

I say, if it's true, good for Opera. The more users away from IE the better.

~ Kevin

I wonder if anyone would consider doing an Opera download counter for FF... :)

lol, I'm done defending you regarding the Opera bait, Asa. I'm just gonna grab some popcorn and watch the flames burn. ;-)

there is absolutely nothing incorrect or inappropriate about asa's post. given that the post is about download counts, it makes perfect sense that it would contain, you know, download count information. what would have him do, make a seperate post for each browser's download counts? or maybe you would just have him avoid talking about items relevant to firefox when there are comparable items relevent to opera to talk about? newsflash: this is a mozilla blog by a person that works for mozilla. nunya's and other's vitriol regarding asa's posts is the height of anality.

I believe the kids would say "Oh, snap!" Very amusing.

tveidt: as Rick said, Asa knows damn well that he words things in a way that will incite Opera fans. HE PROVOKES FLAMEWARS ON PURPOSE. I don't care *where* he f*cking does it, the point is he *wants* us to get upset about it. You all act like he's so innocent. If he were innocent, he would not be following his usual behavior pattern: Post something SLIGHTLY offensive to Opera or its users, allow the flamewars to begin, and then POST ABSOLUTELY NOTHING after that. If Asa cared about the affect his words had, and didn't want Opera users coming here getting all enraged, *HE WOULD MORE CAREFULLY CHOOSE HIS WORDS, AND CLARIFY WHAT HE MEANT IF IT CAUSES DISSENTION* How do you people not see that?

To all of those who will claim I am a troll, I invite you to read my comments on a few of the latest Asa posts that discuss Opera. I COMPLIMENTED him when he posted about Opera without seeming to be putting it down. I told him it seemed much more professional. So, Asa *IS* the troll, regardless of where he posts those comments. If you look at Opera dev's journals, you will NOT see them talking predominantly about Firefox, or putting Firefox down, or comparing themselves to Firefox (fans, yes, but not developers or other people involved with Opera directly). Because *that is the professional way to handle competition.*

"the point is he *wants* us to get upset about it."

if i do something perfectly benign, and somebody gets offended and rants about it, i will sometimes do the same thing again for the amusement. sure, asa might could have worded his post differently so as to not offend you, but if there is nothing inappropriate or factually incorrect about his post, why bother? why should he care about upsetting the irrational whims and fancies of whoever happens to be reading his blog?

it is not asa's fault that you take issue with comments, such as his download count post, that are perfectly benign; that is YOUR fault. and it is not his job to shield you from things, even things that originate with him, that you may find offensive; that is YOUR job.
if asa is guilty of anything, he's guilty of feeding trolls for his(and i must admit, my) amusement.

While I don't know for sure, I don't think Asa was being sarcastic. I think he usually gives credit where credit is due, and it's due here. Clearly he's also proud of what MoFo has achieved with Firefox, but that doesn't mean that this is a dig against Opera.

I also don't think there's any reason for any of us to fuel hostility between the Opera and Mozilla camps, and I happily join Asa in congratulating them.

Hahah. I have to agree with Jason.

Entertaining, not necessarily the blog but the posts!

What on Earth do some people have against Opera? It's as good a piece of software as anything I've tried. Just becaues it isn't open source doesn't make it evil and deserving of dirision.

For the love of god, people. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WEB BROWSERS. You're getting this worked up over PIECES OF SOFTWARE. Crude personal attacks and frothy-mouthed rage over a tongue-in-cheek tease at a competitor? Among the most pathetic behaviour I've seen in my life.

Grow up.

> "if asa is guilty of anything, he's guilty of feeding trolls for his amusement"

Just in case you're not completely stupid, that is exactly what I was saying he is doing. Let me reiterate, for all the slow ones out there.

My (and most Opera users) point is - and has always been - that Asa knows what he is doing, that he does it on purpose, and that he enjoys it. You Firefox users tend to complain that we come here bitching about the unfairness or whatever of his comments. Some of you claim he is innocent, and his intentions are pure. But they are not, as has been pretty much confirmed recently *EVEN BY DIEHARD FF USERS HERE* So, I think it is completely proven that he is intentionally baiting Opera users, to incite a flamewar. Let's look up "troll" on Wikipedia, shall we?

"In the context of the Internet, a troll refers to a person who makes inflammatory or hostile comments, which by effect or design cause disruptions in discourse..."

Now, I will be the first to admit, Asa's words are not DIRECTLY hostile or inflammatory. But, they are, in a shadowy, "clever" way. They are (to anyone with more than 3 working brain cells) "designed to cause disruptions in discourse."

ANYONE - A.N.Y.O.N.E. - who denies Asa's intentions, at this point, is just as big a blind, flaming Firefox fan, as I am an Opera one.

Just to set the record straight, I am not a member of the "ASA SUCKS DONKEY COCK" membership. "Person Man" was making a valid point, but that was a bit.. brutal. :)

Oh, and Simon. Do you think adding your opinion is going to stop what anyone here has to say? If you thought that it would, then you are just ...well, "pathetic" ;)

I think ASA made the post in reaction against hostile Opera fans that been attacking him for the past several months or so. I guess he is trying to prove a point that some Opera fans are just down-right hostile and also prove that some Opera fans don't care about the war against IE, just against Firefox.

One of several reasons why I don't use Opera as default is because some Opera fans got too ugly. They started attacking other browsers' fans (especially firefox) and started making false comments like "opera is unphishable" and "firefox is inherantly inferior product". They went to almost every Firefox blogs and sites, and bash (or troll or whatever you call it) them in the name of Opera. They even bash non-IE browsers inside their forums, but I haven't see any Opera-bashing on Opera forum (I have no doubt there are might be few considering the possiblity that some FF lover will react to Opera fans actions).

I perfer open-minded and it shock me to see that Opera fans are being so close-minded. I like Opera but this went too far. So I just stay away from Opera. I know that most Opera fans are not hostile, but I just can't believe that other Opera fans are letting the hostile ones run around in the name of Opera. Heck, they even SUPPORT them!

The hostile fans are giving Opera bad name, just like hooligans giving British's european football team a bad name, and ASA just proved that on this comments thread. The hostile fans fell in ASA's clever trap.

If you go back to February's postings, there is *1* mention of Opera. And it is in response to questions in one of those "ask asa" sessions. Doesn't count! ...Nice!

March: Same. One post mentioning Opera, and it is an "Ask Asa" session. Great!

April (Opera 8 released April 19): *ZERO MENTIONS OF OPERA BEFORE APRIL 19* After the 19: FOUR posts criticizing or otherwise negatively related to Opera. Going downhill. :(

May: Over 10 posts (in some way) involving Opera.

Yes, I know. With a brand new release, it is expected that Asa at least mention Opera in April. But, I think this is bordering on ridiculous. Why not just post about *FIREFOX*. Maybe Asa himself feels threatened by Opera or something. Or maybe he is just trying to lay flamebait all over the place. The point is, he started it, he KNOWS he started it, and *HE* is the one keeping it going with all these completely unecessary Opera-related posts.

Opera employees certainly didn't lay flamebait all over the place when Firefoxs 1.0 was released (I challenge those who disagree to prove me wrong).

I have to agree with GamingFox. Stop the madness!

"Asa's words are not DIRECTLY hostile or inflammatory. But, they are, in a shadowy, "clever" way. They are ... designed to cause disruptions in discourse."

that line of reasoning is not valid. if it was then this scenario would make sense: a scientist and a hardline christian are debating the origin of life, the scientist says complex life came into existence via evolution, the hardline christian replies by saying the scientist's comments are trolling, disparage the bible, bait christians, and cause disruptions in discourse.

in both cases one party says something which is (presumedly) true and not inappropriate, and the other party takes issue with some trivial aspect of it or completely imagines an issue and procedes to froth at the mouth, accusing the former party of wrong-doing. however, just because somebody says something you dont like, even if it makes you *really* mad, doesnt mean that person is trolling. note, even by your own admission, asa's words are neither hostile nor inflammatory. the merit and quality of a person's words are based on the words themselves, not on other's reaction to them.

also, i'd like to point out you are mischaracterizing the people supposedly involved in this. the people that read and comment on asa's blog are an incredibly small subset of the opera(and firefox) users, and the ones that engage in trolling/ranting/etc are not representative of the majority. in fact, im willing to bet that by far most opera users would find no problems with asa's comments and would probably still not care even if asa were saying things truly vile. if asa is purposely baiting anybody, it is not the "opera users" but instead is a small handful of people who hang out on his blog and whose brains, for whatever reason, are wired to become incensed at anything that challenges their world view.

i'd also like to say that i know that you, nunya, are not the same as some of the other posters here such as person_man. you seem to sincerely believe asa is doing something wrong, while other's simply post nonsense in an attempt to offend somebody. (just to head off possible replies: i hope we can agree that even if asa is purposely baiting people that his post and person_man's post are worlds apart. asa's post was factual and on topic, while person_man's was nothing but profanity and perversion laden gibberish.)

to quote Denis Leary...
Asa, you really are an asshole.

...but I mean that in the best sense :-)

"i'd also like to say that i know that you, nunya, are not the same as some of the other posters here such as person_man. you seem to sincerely believe asa is doing something wrong, while other's simply post nonsense in an attempt to offend somebody. (just to head off possible replies: i hope we can agree that even if asa is purposely baiting people that his post and person_man's post are worlds apart. asa's post was factual and on topic, while person_man's was nothing but profanity and perversion laden gibberish.)"

I don't really know if I feel Asa is doing something wrong. More than anything, I would like some clarification on *his* part. Seriously, I don't really enjoy this crap. I know I annoy the hell out of a lot of Firefox fans, and alot of times I just want to ignore it, and try to, but then (naturally) I see something I feel the need to respond to, whether I really should or not.

Like I said, as much as it may seem to some of you, I do not enjoy "stirring up trouble" and that is truly not my intention. I just wish, to end all the nonsense, that Asa would post something *clear and to the point* for once, or at least attempt to clarify later. I have read some previous posts of his, and know that, sometimes, he does comment after the original post. I just find it odd that he chooses not to do so, ever, on the ones related to Opera. Again, *I do not want to create trouble* ..I have even tried to commend Asa when I feel his Opera-related posts were professionally done, or clear and to-the-point. *ALL* I want is for Asa to clarify his words, or be more clear to begin with. I don't dislike the guy, damnit, I try not to, becuase as many have said, they are *just web browsers* ..But I, and many other Opera users, cannot help but feel he has some vendetta against Opera, when you combine the things he says with the fact that he never even attempts to clarify *any* of it.

sineral, I appreciate your last paragraph (the one I quoted). The fact that you differentiate me from some of the true troll-types indicates to me that maybe (just maybe ;) I am making at least some of my points clear without coming across as a (complete) ass. Like I said, I am not out to piss people off. I get into it, and say things in ways I probably should not, for which I apologize to everyone here. It is not the people here that I feel dislike Opera, only Asa. And I am willing to admit I could be completely wrong about *that* even, if only he would clarify the things he says every once in awhile - which, unfortunately, I do not think will ever happen.

Oh, and since you said that, I apologize for insinuating that you might be stupid. :D

Seriously! Sorry. :)

ASA, do you have some Opera complex?

minghong:
> I have to agree with GamingFox. Stop the madness!

Said a guy, who trolls on OperaWatch blog.

Nunya, my congratulations was sincere. Opera fans have done quite a bit of work to help Opera Software ASA and those Opera fans should feel good about that.

- A

> [Rick] tveidt: Asa knows that his snide remarks will be noticed by Opera fans. What is it with Mozilla representatives and their hatred against other browsers? Look at the story on Ben Goodger's less than clever remark about Netscape 8...

"Hatred"... The most unsocial geeks might be capable of feeling hatred against compiled lines of code, but Asa doesn't seem to be that kind of guy. ;-) Goodger's comment was fine. Netscape released its new "super safe" browser based on the flawed Firefox 1.0.3 and told users even of the most up to date Firefox nightlies that their current browser is outdated and that they should upgrade to the safer Netscape 8. Hence, this reaction was more than understandable. Where do you see the hatred there?

> [Nunya] How do you people not see that [Asa is flamebaiting]?

Ah, yes now I see. "Congratulations to everyone in the opera community who helped Opera Software ASA achieve 4 million downloads." Evil.

As for him provoking and inciting these childish reactions, I'm sure some weblogs could also provoke reactions from me, but what do I do? I don't read them! Call me genius.

Now, "Grow up.", as Simon said. ;-)

Oh yes, and congrats to Opera Software. (Now flame me for this hate-filled, snide remark)

When did Denis Leary call Asa an asshole?

- Chris

-"We know damned well we have to keep improving the Web experience or we’ll die."

Actually, Firefox doesn't have to sell a product to survive. It just has to be good enough.

-"why should he care about upsetting the irrational whims and fancies of whoever happens to be reading his blog?"

Because his attitude reflects on the Mozilla Foundation.

-"it is not asa's fault that you take issue with comments, such as his download count post, that are perfectly benign"

You are clearly biased.

-"I guess he is trying to prove a point that some Opera fans are just down-right hostile"

As are some Firefox fans. The troubling part is, so are some Mozilla Foundation representatives, such as Asa himself, and Ben Goodger who got caught with his pants down the other day. Not to mention the MozillaNews editor and his accusing an Opera guy of lying.

GamingFox... The irony of your post is astounding! You are really blind to the way Firefox fans and representatives act, aren't you?

-"One of several reasons why I don't use Opera as default is because some Opera fans got too ugly."

Wow. That's exactly the kind of reputation Firefox fans have all over the web... You claim that this is one of your reasons for not using Opera. Why, then, are you using Firefox, when these fans are no better? Indeed, the MoFo REPRESENTATIVES constantly stoop to new lows, unlike Opera.

-"I haven't see any Opera-bashing on Opera forum

Firefox zealots come over all the time to cause problems. And Opera fans actually criticize Opera when there is something to criticize.

But your comment about how Opera fans keep you away from Opera... Talk about being blind! It is Firefox fans that have a terrible reputation, not Opera fans.

Hmm, Asa edited this entry?

@Rick: Only to fix the Firefox download counter link, I think.

@Nunya: If assuming I could make a plea to your intellect and maturity to stop you hovering over this thread contributing nothing but long-winded bile to the inanity makes me pathetic, I'll clear some space in my closet for the pathos.

Or would, if I didn't have better things to do with my time than engage in asinine verbal warfare with someone evidence suggests is about fifteen years old.

Hm, that's basically 1 million downloads per week for Opera 8.

(note the 4 million is for Opera 8 only)

Not too bad actually.

>"Firefox zealots come over all the time to cause problems" Hmm... *googleing the opera site for any firefox posts...*

Not many firefox trolls there plus most of the time they just talk about the browsers (opera and firefox), not about fans on both side. You see, what make Opera fans so ugly is the fact they ATTACKED people espcially Asa.

>"such as Asa himself, and Ben Goodger who got caught with his pants down the other day"

Hmm... *googleing the Asa blogs and Ben's blogs...* Ben haven't make any post regarding Opera. If you are talking about his comment about Netscape 8. He just stating the fact which the entire slashdot.org crowd agreed with. The only pants down are Netscape's. Asa have quite a few posts about Opera, but he just basically expressing his opinion about why he doesn't like Opera. He even gave his reasons why what he thinks is wrong with Opera is wrong. Not surprisly, there are so many Opera trolls, almost all of them criticized Asa himself. Why Opera fans criticized ASA when ASA is just criticizing Opera? Opera fans should be expressing their opinions why those things that Asa thinks is bad, is good. Instead, they have to rely on childish acts and attacked Asa and other people.

>"And Opera fans actually criticize Opera when there is something to criticize."

So does Asa. Why Asa doesn't have the right to criticize Opera when Opera fans have the right to criticize Opera?

Im using it so it's better. "Oh opera has this and that." "Firefox has that and this" Stupid. Asa isn't being as one sided as you would think. Sarcasm hence more people come by and try to tell it like it is.

Why do people from around the world argue over browsers? Atleast both browsers are tearing away at Internet Explorer.

@Asa
THANKYOUTHANKYOUTHANKYOUTHANKYOUTHANKYOU!!! Well done!!!1111one

That is good enough for me, Asa!

@Simon
Using big words is fun!

@Simon
I don't recall attacking you and putting you down!! YOU put me down, and make personal attacks!

@Simon
Simon says, "Don't be an asshole, Simon!"

Oh ...And I'm 22. :) This month, actually! (The 9th)

comment deleted (was made from a differnt IP than Simon usually posts. probably an imposter.)

- A

As long as it's anything but IE I don't care. You Opera people should be celebrating, not bitching - you're getting some serious new users here which in turn is going to benefit Opera as a whole.

Stop trolling here and giving your browser a bad name - this is good news from you, a bit of maturity and acceptance would be appreciated, thanks.

Ack. I was done with this thread after my last post, but under the circumstances:

The May 29, 2005 11:49 AM comment was not me, as differences in style would (I hope) attest. I will not be making any further comments in this thread, and I wish great unpleasantness on whomever thought it fair play to appropriate my persona for any purpose.

"@Nunya. Doesn't matter. Aren't you a little to old to be arguing like a 14 year old child. I might be a little crude but Hope to see you at Chucky cheese and have a Happy birthday."

LIKE WHATEVER SIMON!

@Simon Very well I don't appreciate that last remark you said, Maybe not having the ability to edit your post is in most cases your fault.

@Simon, If it wasn't you I still feel alot of pitty upon you. I'm also done with this thread I will post here no longer.

Hi, guys!
And who is link to the Fx download counter???

Honestly. 47 darned posts, just because Asa's post could be misinterpreted...

1st person: "Bla bla bla"
2nd person: "Bla bla bla, bla bla - so there"
1st person: "No. You started this."
2nd person: "No, you did!"
1st person: "No, you!"
2nd person: "No, you!"

Just cut it out willya.

(Thanks for clearing the matter, Asa.)

Hey Asa, those Opera guys are trading off your name - they write ASA in big capitals every time they talk about themselves in the third person (a sure sign of madness). Let's sue 'em.