Surfin' Safari: Comment on Safari Passes the Acid2 Test (Updated)

Congratulations! I knew you could do it!

Posted by Faithful Follower at April 27, 2005 10:40 PM

yyeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!

Posted by Brian A. Maurice-Snider at April 27, 2005 10:45 PM

You cost me a fortune!

Posted by Dean Edwards at April 27, 2005 10:48 PM

Is it victory? There is an orange line around the nose, on the right side. Is that supposed to be there?

Posted by Rosyna at April 27, 2005 10:51 PM

CONGRATULATIONS!!!
now maybe mozilla will get its act together!!

Posted by H.C. at April 27, 2005 10:51 PM

Congratulations!

Safari are the best. You are the superhero! Thank you!!!

Posted by R Lee at April 27, 2005 10:54 PM

And when will this show itself in a Safari normal users actually uses? How many regressions have you created that needs ironing out when changing code to make Acid2 look good in Safari?

Great work, but it ain't over 'til the fat lady sings.

Posted by Kai at April 27, 2005 11:05 PM

Just letting you know that the paths of your patch links are messed up. They link to /hyatt/archives/acid*.txt, instead of /hyatt/acid*.txt

And congratulations on cracking the Acid2 test so fast!

Posted by B.J. Schaefer at April 27, 2005 11:06 PM

Hyatt,

just in case - here's a page that's broken at least in 10.3.9/1.3(v312):

http://sepp.offline.ee/blog/tavaline/2005/04/ipod-shuffle-kaarte-segama-umber-paigutama-segamine/

If I scroll down, the content stops at a random point - using down arrow or the mouse wheel it gets blank quicker than using pagedown. and in the rare cases where I've managed to get the whole text to display it flows over the white box. I don't think I've ever managed to get Safari to show the comment adding box in the very end of the page.

Posted by Indrek Siitan at April 27, 2005 11:12 PM

Great work, Dave. Amazing progress in such short time!

The red tint has got to be from a red background bleeding through from behind when it anti-aliases the edges of the nose.

http://wqoq.com/img/red_on_yellow.png
http://wqoq.com/img/black_on_yellow.png
http://wqoq.com/img/black_on_red_on_yellow.png

I don't know know what, if anything, can be done about it, though.

Posted by Bob Maguire at April 27, 2005 11:17 PM

Perhaps they should validate their site.

Looks like a real mess.

http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fsepp.offline.ee%2Fblog%2Ftavaline%2F2005%2F04%2Fipod-shuffle-kaarte-segama-umber-paigutama-segamine%2F

Posted by Brian A. Maurice-Snider at April 27, 2005 11:19 PM

You should make the patch links (relative) absolute. This way they don't work on archived pages.

Congrats though!

Posted by Anne at April 27, 2005 11:28 PM

For the twenty-fifth time the site isn't SUPPOSED to validate, part of what Acid2 tests is how browsers handle invalid CSS.

Posted by Patrick at April 27, 2005 11:32 PM

What a great accomplishment! What are the chances that you'll be able to release a Safari update with these improvements any time soon? I mean, it's a great achievement (and egg on the face of other browsers). This is a great benefit to Web designers everywhere. I only hope that more browsers follow your lead.

Posted by Michael Buckley at April 27, 2005 11:32 PM

Patrick: did you even look at the URL of the site Brian was talking about?

Dave: congratulations! Now.. how long until us plebes get to see it :D

Posted by Kevin Ballard at April 27, 2005 11:36 PM

Bob: If you looked at the orange line in Pixie, you'll notice it's not anti-aliasing. It's a solid orange line, dividing solid black and solid yellow.

Posted by Kevin Ballard at April 27, 2005 11:38 PM

Patrick-???

The fact that:

http://sepp.offline.ee/blog/tavaline/2005/04/ipod-shuffle-kaarte-segama-umber-paigutama-segamine/

doesn't validate is who's fault? It's not just invalid CSS BTW...

Posted by Brian A. Maurice-Snider at April 27, 2005 11:38 PM

For the love of god people, stop asking when the next release is. He is not the only person in charge of what is released when.

Posted by jer at April 27, 2005 11:46 PM

You should be commended for your work and dedication to standards! Cheers!

Posted by Allen Pike at April 27, 2005 11:56 PM

This nose thing is still a problem I think:

http://homepage.mac.com/spullara/acid2problem.pdf

Sam

Posted by Sam Pullara at April 28, 2005 12:22 AM

Bravo !!! What a great work !

Posted by tom at April 28, 2005 1:28 AM

Woo! This is so cool. Dave, surround yourself with client-side web developers and you'll never have to buy a drink again.

Could we commission a Dave Hyatt statue?

Posted by Small Paul at April 28, 2005 1:44 AM

Woo, and indeed 'hoo'. Excellent work. And I enjoyed the little 'drama' earlier ;)

Posted by R P Grant at April 28, 2005 2:01 AM

Great work. Now i can begin to throw hot potatoes everywhere in my Windows-centric Office. They really believe that IE is the best in CSS mode. No troll.
But please, i'm not a programmer and i would know how to apply the patches and would know if they're working on Safari2.
Please help

Posted by xylpho at April 28, 2005 2:28 AM

Will the fixes be contributed to KHTML ? There'd be PR benefits of tectonic proportions if they were.

Posted by VRic at April 28, 2005 2:46 AM

Well done!

Posted by Owain at April 28, 2005 2:54 AM

Mr. Hyatt, You rock!

Posted by Stu at April 28, 2005 3:03 AM

VRic - the links posted are patches- these allow KHTML devs to incorporate the changes to the KHTML source.

Posted by Diggory Laycock at April 28, 2005 3:23 AM

Swouit !

Posted by VRic at April 28, 2005 3:43 AM

Hi,
thanks Indrek, thanks Mr. "who-invented-referrers"

---
Brian A. Maurice-Snider:
Perhaps they should validate their site.
Looks like a real mess.
http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fsepp.offline.ee%2Fblog%2Ftavaline%2F2005%2F04%2Fipod-shuffle-kaarte-segama-umber-paigutama-segamine%2F
---

this page seems to validate now (the first page still doesn't but redesign is coming in the future anyway)

now, http://sepp.offline.ee/blog/tavaline/2005/04/ipod-shuffle-kaarte-segama-umber-paigutama-segamine
does the page displays OK?

Posted by sepp at April 28, 2005 3:43 AM

Dave: can you just make sure anti-aliasing is ON when you implement border-radius? Mozilla just looks so naff with pixellated curves! God am I glad you didn't go with Gecko. :-)

- Nick.
http://web.nickshanks.com/

Posted by Nicholas Shanks at April 28, 2005 4:16 AM

Ah, but think where Gecko would be now with Dave's capable hands helping out :) Still, all competition is good.

Posted by Robin at April 28, 2005 4:23 AM

Great work, but it doesn't count until it ships.

Posted by Joe at April 28, 2005 4:58 AM

Posted by maykc at April 28, 2005 5:31 AM

Congrats. For 5 days I have been struggling with IE 5 and 6 erratic CSS interpretation for a little site and I then went to see a blog about IE 7 current developpement. The guy just went amok for having adressed TWO issues described on positioniseverything.net and was congratulated as a new messahiah.
Really funny when we see at what speed and whith how much success you implement correct CSS interpretation in Safari :D

I guess WoW is waiting for you soon ;D

Posted by Stephane at April 28, 2005 5:34 AM

Congratulation for the awesome work!

Thank you for making Safari the first browser to pass the test.

Posted by Hugues at April 28, 2005 6:13 AM

Wow an inspirational achievement!

Posted by Namo at April 28, 2005 6:32 AM

YAY! SA-FA-RI, SA-FA-RI! I knew you'd be the first to crack the code now lets watch how long it take IE... I've got my money on 2011.

Just what I expected from such responsive developers.

Posted by Funtime Ben at April 28, 2005 6:38 AM

Congrats!! :)

All I need to know now, is when can I get my hands on it?!

Posted by Melissa at April 28, 2005 6:49 AM

Great work Mr. Hyatt, I'm getting kinda sick building websites on winblows, so I'll be ordering my spanking new G5 today.

Thanks to you, I will have a great browser to design the ideal layout, then hack to bits for the rest.

Keep up the good work!

Regards;
Poncho

Posted by Poncho at April 28, 2005 6:50 AM

Now if only Safari could work OK with all the corporate web site we manage, I would be a Happy camper (CSS, DHTML and java problems)

Posted by Benjamin Amsaleg at April 28, 2005 6:50 AM

To nitpick, there is a line in the reference rendering's nose missing in safari.

reference rendering
**
***
****
***
**

safari
**
***
***
**

Posted by pg at April 28, 2005 6:51 AM

Dave Hyatt = Safari Messiah

Posted by Martin at April 28, 2005 7:20 AM

I just noticed that the colours are slightly different between the reference image and the latest screenshot posted here.

The reference image displays the yellow as #FFFF00, whilst the screenshot is #FFFF46. The green of the eyes, and the grey of the eyebrows are also slightly different.

Posted by Melissa at April 28, 2005 7:32 AM

The screenshot is #FFFF00 on my copy of Firefox, same as the reference image.

Posted by Robin at April 28, 2005 7:39 AM

/cheer

Posted by Steven Schrab at April 28, 2005 8:09 AM

Congrats. It's been great to watch this evolve. Can't wait to get my copy of Tiger tomorrow and try out the new version and will anxiously await the day I get a message is software update that there is update to Safari.

Thanks for everything you do to continuously improve Safari.

Bob

Posted by Bob at April 28, 2005 8:29 AM

Excellent, now you should move on to all the Javascript 'issues' with safari... Maybe someone could come up with a Javascript/DOM Acid test?

Posted by Geoff at April 28, 2005 8:54 AM

This might just make me switch from Firefox to Konqueror. :)

Posted by Ant at April 28, 2005 8:56 AM

Just a quick note to add my words on congratulations.

Well done sir, sterling work.

Tom.

Posted by Tom Raftery at April 28, 2005 8:59 AM

Great work! I am so excited to see this taken seriously and benefit web users and developers. Thank you very much!

Posted by Jonathan Morley at April 28, 2005 9:07 AM

Fantastic!

Posted by Ryan Clark at April 28, 2005 10:00 AM

Awesome!

I'm a Mac newbie, so I have been using Safari since just 3 days and I'm loving it. Things like these are gonna make it even better!

Keep it up :)

Posted by Swaroop C H at April 28, 2005 10:01 AM

Thank you for putting in the effort to pass the test. I'm not a Mac user myself so I won't be using Safari any time soon, but none-the-less I am happy about your progress. So far I know that Safari passes the test, Gecko will start working towards passing the test after version 1.1, and I'm absolutely positive that Presto (Opera) will pass it soon considering that the CTO issued the challenge and they don't have a major release to wait for. The only rendering engine I have to worry about now is MSHTML, but with all of the positive PR going toward their competitors I think that they might just get off their butts ;)

Thanks.

Posted by Jesse at April 28, 2005 10:25 AM

Rock on Dave!

Posted by Gabe at April 28, 2005 10:33 AM

Congratulations. Now I wonder which will be the first browser available for multiple platforms to pass the test.

Posted by Jordi Kroon at April 28, 2005 11:15 AM

Geoff > Although it doesn't have any kind of "full featured test" such as Acid2 (I wonder if it'd even be possible), Quirksmode (http://www.quirksmode.org/) has a lot of individual tests for most if not all features of Javascript (ECMAScript ~ ECMA-262), DOM and DOM Events.

Posted by Masklinn at April 28, 2005 11:25 AM

One more update and you'll be done. There is a line missing from the very center of the nose.

Your current version:
http://homepage.mac.com/spullara/safarinose.pdf

The reference image:
http://homepage.mac.com/spullara/referencenose.pdf

Good luck and good work.

Posted by Sam Pullara at April 28, 2005 11:28 AM

I am not sure if this conforms with the css standard but, how about the aqua button style that does not change its color when using a tag like;

inside a form. All other browsers allow and implement style for an input tag inside a form but Safari. It would be nice if safari provided at least 16 colors of that button, or maybe 2 colors. I can't wait to see if the new safari solves this problem.

Thanks again for the review.

Serhan.

Posted by Serhan at April 28, 2005 11:29 AM

First of all, congrats on a job well done!

On a slightly different note, did you see the rather acidic blog entry by Zack Rusin here: http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/view/1001 ? It's an (ethically?) serious and troubling accusation that Apple isn't obeying the spirit of Open Source - "They do the very, very minimum required by LGPL." What's going on? While I understand Apple's need to make Safari work really well on OS X first - with regard to using OS X only APIs, I suspect a lot of people expected cooperation between the two teams when Apple announced it was using KHTML as a basis of Safari.

Posted by LBlue at April 28, 2005 11:43 AM

The CANVAS element does use OS X APIs, but behind an abstraction layer that is platform-agnostic. Mozilla has in fact implemented CANVAS on top of Cairo in Firefox. The code can be easily merged for CANVAS if a suitable back-end graphics library exists underneath.

Posted by hyatt at April 28, 2005 12:00 PM

Dave Hyatt is one of the most brilliant programmers in the world. Hehe.

Posted by Tyler Durden at April 28, 2005 12:24 PM

Oh heck, on more time won't hurt.

Great Job Dave!

Posted by Roland at April 28, 2005 12:33 PM

[quote]Thank you for putting in the effort to pass the test. I'm not a Mac user myself so I won't be using Safari any time soon, but none-the-less I am happy about your progress. So far I know that Safari passes the test, Gecko will start working towards passing the test after version 1.1, and I'm absolutely positive that Presto (Opera) will pass it soon considering that the CTO issued the challenge and they don't have a major release to wait for. The only rendering engine I have to worry about now is MSHTML, but with all of the positive PR going toward their competitors I think that they might just get off their butts ;)

Thanks.[/quote]

OK, I'm stupid. I forgot about KHTML, which Konqueror uses. I just realized that you opened up the changes so that they can be implemented in KHTML, hence Konqueror. I just installed Ark Linux 2005.1 SR1 a few nights ago (don't have net access on it yet though), so I WILL be able to see the results for myself whenever they update! Woot!

Posted by Jesse at April 28, 2005 12:34 PM

Ten bucks say Opera passes next, before Gecko does.

Posted by dzd at April 28, 2005 12:42 PM

On my computer, there is no missing line, and no orange or read bleeding through

(could be something with my LCD monitor, but generally I've found it to be surprisingly accurate)

Posted by Brian at April 28, 2005 1:07 PM

wait, the nose is different on the horizontal,
but the safari way makes it the same vertical & horizontal
2 pixels on all 4 points.
while the reference has it 2 pixel thick on the top & bottom of the diamond
and only 1 pixel thick on the left & right part of the diamond.
seems odd for the reference to have that being different.

Posted by Brian at April 28, 2005 1:11 PM

Excellent. Congrats.

“Disable antialiasing for the drawing of polygons.” That doesn’t seem good, though.

Posted by Henri Sivonen at April 28, 2005 1:15 PM

As Martin and Sam Pullara mentioned. There is still a difference in the way the nose is rendered.

Here's a poorly captured example of moving the one over the other with a difference layer in Photoshop. Black means the same.

http://wqoq.com/img/safari_acid2nose_diff.png

The difference between the two becomes clear...

Posted by Bob Maguire at April 28, 2005 1:18 PM

Dave,
GREAT work. Your commitment to making Safari as good as it can be is inspiring.

I noticed what a couple others have pointed out about the nose not appearing exactly correct. I've created an image to show the difference:

http://seattlebound.blogsite.org/img/acid2.gif

I don't know if I would go so far as to say that makes Safari not pass, but then again, it IS one pixel.

I thought you might like to know.

Posted by Cameron Walters at April 28, 2005 1:26 PM

Looks like Bob beat me to it. :)

Posted by Cameron Walters at April 28, 2005 1:27 PM

The nose issue is not a bug. It's just a slight difference in how borders are rendered. The test can't dictate pixel-precision for border corners.

Posted by hyatt at April 28, 2005 1:33 PM

This does it - I'm getting a mac!

Posted by Geiri at April 28, 2005 1:56 PM

"So, when will KHTML merge all the WebCore changes?
...
They made a conscious decision about not working with KDE developers. All I’m asking for is that all the clueless people stop talking about the cooperation between Safari/Konqueror developers and how great it is. There’s absolutely nothing great about it. In fact “it” doesn’t exist."

Zack Rusin's blog

http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/view/1001

Doesn't sound good :-(

Posted by Helge at April 28, 2005 2:12 PM

Just to keep nitpicking (because I'm on Windows using IE... ok, both IE and FireFox), I guess the differences in the font don't matter either?

Posted by Chinpokomon at April 28, 2005 2:15 PM

Rock on!

Posted by antizeit at April 28, 2005 2:17 PM

Good enough answer for me. I give you my seal of approval... ;)

Posted by Bob Maguire at April 28, 2005 2:51 PM

Congratulations, sir! Thank you for your devotion to web standards.

Posted by John at April 28, 2005 3:25 PM

Yeah, it's a shame that there's not any closer cooperation between Apple and the KHTML, considering this blog by one of the KHTML people:

http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/view/1001

:(

Posted by Myrd at April 28, 2005 3:27 PM

Seems like the KDE guys are a whiny bunch.

Let's recap.

Apple use KHTML because it is GPL and at the time more mature and less bloated than Gecko.

Dave and Apple make tons of changes so that Safari kicks ass.

Dave and Apple send all those changes back to KDE when appropriate, all in compliance with the GPL.

KDE devs whine and moan about Apple doing OSX specific things, about how hard it is to merge the code, etc. etc. etc. Waaaaahhhhhhhhh.

If the code doesn't fit into the KDE tree, then perhaps they should be grateful that they have a nice crib-sheet to work with when "rewriting" it so that it works with their tree. I guess they'd just prefer to reinvent the wheel instead.

How's that saying go about cake and eating :-)

Posted by Espumoso at April 28, 2005 3:58 PM

http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/view/1001

Yah, it is a real shame that Apple can't work to get these patches merged back into KTML. Rusin (the guy who wrote the blog) is now working at Trolltech alongside the guy who originally wrote KHTML.

Come on Apple! Provide the history logs so those who've _you've_ benefited from can benefit from you in turn!

Posted by fandango at April 28, 2005 4:01 PM

Espumoso, the guy is not whining at all. The people who are whining are not the KHTML developers, rather they are the users. And, from my perspective they have a right to. Apple is not respecting the spirit of Open Source by making their changes hard to integrate back into the original library they took from.

Posted by Fandango at April 28, 2005 4:03 PM

So I guess KHTML developers would like Apple to just take and not do anything with it, right? They could as well let KHTML developers do all the work, and then just download the damn code and change it a bit for Safari. I mean, it's not like they couldn't do that...

This is plain whining... I thank the KHTML developers for creating the damn fine rendering engine, but what they do now is plain wrong.

Posted by Anatoly Papirovsky at April 28, 2005 4:32 PM

<sarcasm>Yeah, those individual patches Dave posted look really hard to integrate.</sarcasm>

Even if Apple usually drops a bunch of changes on them at once, the particular complaint that triggered this rant -- the changes for Acid2 compliance, which are broken down into a individual, clearly labeled patches -- seems unfounded.

Posted by Kelson at April 28, 2005 4:42 PM

You must've heard this sentence hundred times today, but here's one more occurence for ego-stroking: you made a wonderful job of it, with nice blogging about it, a brilliant illustration of your talented expertise. I love Web/Tech for moments just like this. Thank you.

Posted by François at April 28, 2005 4:54 PM

Congratulations, Dave. Moments like this make me glad my parents named me Dave.

As far as the KHTML people, I have to ring in my opinion on the side of "they're whining." As long as Apple continues to provide the Safari changes to the KHTML group as defined by the LGPL, whether "bare minimum" or not, I personally don't see why they're griping. Well, yes, I do -- this one particular guy seems to be a lazy self-serving egomaniac that wants the thanks and glory to go to KHTML rather than the wonderful Dave Hyatt and implies exactly what he wants to refute, that they're too lazy to go through and implement the 'code bombs' that Apple supplies them with.

And of course Apple's not going to work hand in hand with them -- Apple has to ensure that they ship their product first! Providing the code on an ongoing basis may allow other browsers (i.e. Konqueror) to release a browser based on their changes before they deliver a Safari update; even if those releases are in the form of a "nightly build" rather than a "stable release", Apple surely wouldn't want to see anyone beat them to the punch. I say, thank you KHTML team for all your work, thank you Dave Hyatt and Apple for all your work, and let's all get along and be happy that IE for the Mac no longer truly exists. :-)

Posted by Bakuryuuha at April 28, 2005 5:51 PM

How do you patch those files? What directory should I be in?

Posted by John Blaze at April 28, 2005 6:50 PM

first, Dave: cool stuff, man. =)

to the people who feel that Zack Rusin is whinging: what you are lacking is the necessary understanding of the issue at hand. which is fine, you probably aren't a KHTML or a Safari hacker.

Zack noted that Apple is within their rights to do what they are doing. while he is correct, it's also true that this is an unecessary and unfortunate path that has been chosen.

not only was KHTML and KJS put out there for Apple's (and everyone else's) use, KDE hackers did everything they could to work with Apple but to no avail. Apple's Safari team have decided, for all practical purposes, to fork the codebase rather than contribute to the larger process. Zack explained how this came about and why it's not a good thing in his blog as well as elsewhere on the mailing lists.

and yet, despite this forking, people continue to wax eloquent about how great it is that Apple is doing this "for" or "with" KHTML, when the reality is that Apple is really doing nothing of the sort ... we all wish that they were doing exactly that, however.

on the KDE user's side (whom Zack was addressing; as opposed to the Apple fans that have lept from their position of "innocence" into the fray in these talkbacks), it's not rational nor fair to expect the KHTML hackers to be able to merge these patches in to KHTML because, well, they are not mergable, even many of the seemingly trivial ones. and yet this is the expectation many users hold.

due to how the Safari team has managed their project in relation to KHTML, the codebases have diverged and a deep technical chasm sits in between.

sadly, nobody wins doing it this way and everybody loses. (well, except perhaps our friends in Redmond.) KDE doesn't get the benefits of sharing the code, and Apple comes off looking like an entity whom you don't want to deal with as a development partner. that's not a great reputation to be building when you rely on Open Source software.

this is all, really, an unfortuante circumstance. it's fixable, but right now the ball is in Apple's court. Zack and others are waiting for the volley.

i hope that helps explain things a bit more for the Safari users who are happy to read about Dave's outstanding work and can't understand why a KDE developer might not be so happy about it as they are =)

Posted by Aaron J. Seigo at April 28, 2005 6:58 PM

>Apple has to ensure that they ship their
> product first!

Yes, we wouldn't want to cooperate and make a better product for everyone now would we? Especially since Safari is THE reason people pick MacOS X and KDE is Apple's biggest and most unfriendly competitor, threatening to crush it were it not for Safari.

</sarcasm>

please.

Posted by SmileyFace at April 28, 2005 7:05 PM

This is a severe disappointment that you disabled anti-aliasing. Quartz Graphics is a major asset of Mac OS X and Safari should take advantage of it to its full extend.

Posted by Smooth Graphics at April 28, 2005 8:01 PM

The linked blog merely asks people to stop comparing KHTML to Safari, to stop assuming Apple does more than they're required to do under the license the KHTML folks chose, and to stop pointing out how the KHTML team can't keep up. I think that's more than fair, as it's rude to point out such shortcomings. It also mentions that it's too bad that Apple doesn't do more of the KHTML work for them, because it's hard. And finally, it mentions that Apple, by taking this attitude, isn't helping people for free who aren't their customers or users, which also appears true. So... very apt blog.

Posted by Sam at April 28, 2005 8:03 PM

I've found another bug in Safari.

See: http://xkr.us/bugs/safari-05-001.html

Awesome work on Acid2 and the rest, Dave.

Posted by Brad Fults at April 28, 2005 8:06 PM

Forks happen when the parent project's core team is not responsive enough. And they rarely stop at one.

Great work, Dave.

Posted by Steven Fisher at April 28, 2005 9:20 PM

My take is here. Dave, what are your thoughts (and Apples if you are allowed to say) on colloborating with the KDE team. What could they do better? What could apple do better?

Posted by matt at April 29, 2005 12:00 AM

@Steven Fisher:
> Forks happen when the parent project's core
> team is not responsive enough.

that's not the only time forks happen; they happen for numerous reasons.

but since you're implying the KHTML developers aren't/weren't responsive enough...... do you have something to back that up with? or is this just more iFaith rearing it's head?

FYI, i've followed this from the beginning, rather close to the source (excuse the pun) on the KDE side. so i'd love to hear your take on it.

Posted by Aaron J. Seigo at April 29, 2005 12:12 AM

You should be on Firefox' side!

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Posted by romy at April 29, 2005 12:39 AM

It is too bad that Apple has decided to take the maximum from khtml, and to return the bare legal minimum with no intent of cooperating.

The good attitude would have been to work on a common khtml tree, and abstract the OS X specific changes behind an API (in the same way Qt abstracts the differences between windows, unix and macos X behind an API), so that both KDE and Apple can benefit from the work done on khtml. This is what KDE guys have proposed and it has been rejected !

In the current state of things, the patches are _useless_. If Microsoft would release the patch between IE6 and IE7, it would be as useful to the khtml developers as the patches currently released by Apple.

As a KDE guy, I feel offended that Apple pretends to be working with khtml and KDE. Apple should at least make it clear that it has no intention at all to cooperate with KDE. I'll suggest that they rename their khtml to something else, since this is what a fork is at least supposed to do.

Posted by PHilippe Fremy at April 29, 2005 1:30 AM

Congratulations!
I´m quite surprised it could be done that fast. That means there´s no reasons for the competitors to not follow your lead!

Posted by Patrick Schriner at April 29, 2005 1:45 AM

is this for safari 1.3 or 2.0???

i run 2.0 and would like to know if there's an installer to run all those patches???

best regards and thnx for ur work

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Posted by AMD at April 29, 2005 8:15 AM

This is great work, thank you :-)

Now Please, Please, Please, implement webfonts!

http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/fonts.html#font-descriptions
http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-webfonts/#font-descriptions

A font format that isn't mentioned here is the CEF format. It is used in SVG already, so perhaps that's a good place to start?

http://www.adobe.com/svg/illustrator/optimization.html

Sorry to be off topic, but I hate cropping 600 header graphics for every website :-)

Again, congrats on the achievement!

Posted by Kevin Newman at April 29, 2005 9:23 AM

"Congratulations, Dave. Moments like this make me glad my parents named me Dave.

yes, I do -- this one particular guy seems to be a lazy self-serving egomaniac that wants the thanks and glory to go to KHTML rather than the wonderful Dave Hyatt and implies exactly what he
"

"Seems to be" means you have zero idea. Zero.
and the "wonderful Dave Hyatt"? Stop kissing his ass, it's embarrassing.

KHTML guys are having trouble integrating the changes. That's a fact. Nobody is blaming anyone and if you had read the original posting, you would know that.

End of story.

Posted by Joe at April 29, 2005 10:40 AM

Dave, I don't have a website at the moment, so I can't post a trackback, but I've found two new rendering errors in Safari 1.3.

1. The y value in background-position no longer seems to work, even when background-repeat is set to no-repeat. In a site I'm working on the background is positioned properly in other browsers but starts at the top of the div in Safari.

2. Imagine an outer container (div) with height:auto overflow:auto to adjust to floats. Inside is another div, position:relative. Inside that is some regular content followed by a position:absolute div. The position:absolute div causes Safari to put unnecessary scrollbars (both vertical and horizontal) in the outer div.

These two errors are really causing grief for a project of mine. I can't fix them, so I'll have to leave Safari looking like crap.

Posted by Paul D at April 29, 2005 12:14 PM

KDE guys are having trouble implementing the changes!?!?!? WTF? Would you rather there not be any changes at all? What whiny ass losers. They're pissed because Safari is moving so fast? Jesus christ. Newsflash to Konqueror developers: Your browser was always the worst one available for Linux and you are getting hints on how to improve it but you can't take your heads out of your ass to see it.

Posted by Phil at April 29, 2005 12:34 PM

I can't even reach that KDEdeveloper site linked above.. Do you need KHTML to access it? :p

Great job on Acid2-I tried viewing it on IE & Firefox..yikes.

Posted by firefox_user at April 29, 2005 12:54 PM

Dave, --

In case you have an access to bugreport.apple.com,
could you please look at issue 4075782,
related to cookie path security?

Thanks,
--Vladimir

Posted by Vladimir at April 29, 2005 1:38 PM

@Phil: If you don't know what a diff is, go to the sandbox.

Posted by antiphil at April 29, 2005 2:01 PM

Your browser was always the worst one available for Linux

Yeah, and that's why Apple chose it as a base, I suppose? Come on...

Posted by Random KDE user at April 29, 2005 2:30 PM

So I know this isn't quite the place to put it, but I saw that you were fielding bugs in 1.3 and I just installed Tiger and found a nice juicy 2.0 bug. From the GraphicConverter site showing off JPEG2000 it looks like JPEG 2000 images aren't being rendered correctly making them look horribly compressed. Save them to the desktop and open in Preview and all is fine.

http://www.lemkesoft.com/en/gcabout_newtechnology.htm

Posted by Tim Smith at April 29, 2005 3:58 PM

I -as a Mac user- find it dissappointing that Apple's KHTML projects has become a form of KDE's KHTML project. David, could you please explain why? Was it neccesary to create a fork (because maybe you implemented some MacOS only tech)? Wouldn't it be so much better if both projects worked together, maybe Safari could develop even quicker into a better browser (it already is the best, of course)

Posted by Wolfgang Schreurs at April 30, 2005 2:14 AM

I just noticed that some Dashboard examples have the comment-error thing you fixed earlier to remove that "ERROR" text.

So if you send this new Safari through software update, quite a few example widgets will not work...

Posted by Magnus at April 30, 2005 3:08 AM

Congratulations! This makes me proud to use a Mac. :)

Posted by Jonathan at April 30, 2005 7:02 AM

"Announcing that Safari passes the Acid2 test has raised some voices in the KDE world. Apple, they say, isn't playing friendly. They don't provide a CVS history, just the modified files where nobody can understand how and when things have changed. It's quite likely that KHTML developers will have to write their own code to pass the acid2 test. Zack Rusin writes: 'All I'm asking for is that all the clueless people stop talking about the cooperation between Safari/Konqueror developers and how great it is. There's absolutely nothing great about it. In fact "it" doesn't exist.'"

http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/04/29/1556252&tid=121&tid=95&tid=3

Posted by ssam at April 30, 2005 8:27 AM

here's a little test of the new widgets that safari 1.3-2.0 lets you put into html...

http://atomicmedia.net/safari.php

Posted by mb at April 30, 2005 11:19 AM

Well done! Great to see Safari out in front in supporting the web standards soup. Keep up the good work.

Posted by Leden at May 1, 2005 1:59 PM

Hi Dave,

My wife is about to ditch one of the two Macs we own because the online classes she takes from Excelsior College, http://www.excelsior.edu, doesn't work completely with Safari, in Panther (pre and post 10.3.9) or Tiger. Not the homepage, that loads pretty much without error, but the My EC functionality, the authenticated portion of the site, is just a complete mess. It also occasionally crashes Firefox and has issues with Mac IE. About the only thing the works is IE on Windows. This may not sonud like a Safari problem, but I need this to work on the Mac or I have to go back in time to WinXP. The college's attitude is we don't have Mac users, and we only have one iMac running Jaguar, and they had to get that out of the basement, my wife has called them multiple times, they are no help and clearly aren't going to help.

I know you don't directly work with users on compatability issues, but this to me is a special case because you probably don't have access to this site or may not even know about the site. The internet has a very long tail on used sites.

If you can or will work with me to resolve this issue, just drop me mail. I am not kidding, if I can't get compatibility resolved on this, I will have to bring a PC into my house for the first time in years.

Help me Dave Hyatt, you're my only hope.

Posted by Dave Murdock at May 4, 2005 8:07 AM

Yahoo Search Tabs missing in Safari 2.0. They started to work again in Safari 1.3, but now with Tiger, Safari 2.0 cannot display the Search Tabs.

Also Safari 2.0 cannot show the popup "Show Related Articles" in any Yahoo News article when clicking on the purple icon. (Y!Q Search feature in Yahoo News). They sort of worked in 1.3, but with Safari 2.0 the popup doesn't work at all.

Please fix.

Posted by Chris at May 4, 2005 8:52 AM

Well done. A great result! You are truly a coding god.

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Dave, it's so cool the things you do, but why-oh-why is it not Released??????

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