Kudos on the excellent work you're doing on increasing Safari's CSS support - if every browser development team had a fellow as dedicated as yourself working for them, the web would be in a better condition than it is now :)

Quick question though - any further thoughts on the one pixel orange outline around the nose?

But what's the grey line on the bottom left?

Anyway, great work. It's only a partial CSS implementation, but it does fix some errors, mistakes and glitches. Awesome.

Ugh, Gecko seems to have more problems with 1.1...

Thanks and keep up the good work

Good work Dave, keep it up!

Lets hope this will also get the attention of the IE team, and prehaps IE7 might just pass this test...

Can somebody explain to a newbie why this smiley-stuff is important? I understand that it must be but why?

I should probably point out a funky behavior of the reference rendering in Safari 1.3. When resizing the window, with live resize, things smudge and smear everywhere. Here is a screen shot.

http://homepage.mac.com/sroy/acid2drag.jpg

This might not be related to the Acid2 test per se, but it still looks like something that isn't right somewhere. :)

Steve

I know this is way OT, but the latest safari is choking on this code in the latest build : <a href="index.php?action=userinfo&amp;uid=9" type="application/xhtml+html">123-123</a>.

The content-type header says application/xhtml+xml and the !DOCTYPE is xhtml1-strict.

Older versions were fine, and other browsers are fine, but the latest Safari displays the link in the status bar as pointing to "index.php?action=userinfo&uid=9".

Is the page at fault, or is Safari at fault? Either way, it completely cripples zhuxiaoshu.zif.com.au

Anyone got any help for me? Right now, I'm just using Firefox for that site.

Sorry, I meant the latest Safari shows the link as pointing to "index.php?action=userinfo&#38;uid=9" (should use preview).

axl: The smiley is just a smiley, but it's constructed by heinous building blocks. Mixing of all kinds of properties and checking that the browser really renders (draws) the smiley properly. If it draws the smiley properly, then that means the browser pays close attention to relatively new rules in the standards and nit-picky exceptions, and in turn means web designers will be able to safely use all these new rules to construct better layouts.

This may seem a bit abstract, but there's not really a way to be more specific without bringing in buzzwords or industry terms that not everyone will understand.

Jesper > Thanks for the info. I understand what you mean. I´m interested in what areas does this "validates" a webpages code? HTML or CCS or everything?

Great work Dave. It's been neat seeing how things are progressing. Keep it up!

The red outline on the nose shouldn't be there: In the test guide (http://webstandards.org/act/acid2/guide.html), it says for the nose:

div: background: red : Should not be visible.

but on Dave's current rendering, there is clearly some red - if you zoom in to Dave's and the reference rendering, there is a clear difference on the nose.

Still I think Safari is definitely going to be the first browser to pass the test - way to go.

axl, if a browser render correctly this smiley, it will also render correctly all valid pages.
It does not validate you page code, but garantee that if your code is correct, it will be render as define in the W3C documentation.

Grayfox > Thanks for the info.

So, given how long some improved safari features have been in the pipeline, how long will it be until us mere mortals get to have proper CSS rendering? I take it that the Tiger freeze date has come and gone by quite some time now.

I don't think that's a red outline around the nose - it's more a dark ochre: exactly what you expect when anti-aliasing between yellow and black!

Grayfox said: "...if a browser render correctly this smiley, it will also render correctly all valid pages. It does not validate you page code, but garantee that if your code is correct, it will be render as define in the W3C documentation."

This is not right. Acid2 tests only some parts of the current CSS recommendations, not ALL of it! Even parts of it that are tested (e.g. generated content) are far from being tested fully. Acid2 compliance is a great thing for a browser to achieve, but that is so far away from being definitive. I wish it were so simple, all render one mega-testcase the same, then forget about rendering glitches forever is something both web developer and browser manufacturers dream about...

Sorry, I've got to criticise Dave a little here. When he started working on making Safari pass the Acid2 test, on April 12, he said: "This will be a fairly slow process".

Well. Here we are, just 11 days later, and he's virtually finished.

Am I misinterpreting the word 'friendly'? :)

The progress has been phenomenal really. One of the big things about web development that annoys me is just one little error can make everything screwy. There is a grey line in the bottom left, I wonder if it's a rendering bug or just an overlap of a screenshot.

"I wish it were so simple, all render one mega-testcase the same, then forget about rendering glitches forever is something both web developer and browser manufacturers dream about..."

Well we might wish for it, but I don't know if Dave would look forward to debugging it!

Matt

The grey line under the picture is just from a bad screen capture, not from a rendering glitch.

not to burst your bubble or anything, but the IE7 beta is coming out this summer and it's going to support this awesome new feature where you can have a PNG image use alpha channels AND support floats correctly. if you aren't familiar with alpha channel PNGs and floats, they're two new features microsoft created that aren't available in any other browser.

keep up the good work ;)

Good work on all the bug fixes Dave. I've been keeping up with all the progress from all the current browser vendors.

Coming from the stand point of a web site developer your work for Safari has made it my new favorite browser. Up until now I've had no real preference for standards-compliant browsers.

And even if after all this there will still be problems with Safari just like any browser, but I think your work demonstrates how much you care to help out web developers. That is what has made Safari my favorite browser of all. Haha, I just wish I could use it on something other than my Mac now.

As expressed by many of the readers here I'd like to echo the thanks web developers everywhere are undoubtedly expressing to you. Thanks Dave. (^_^)

So, it looks like Dave will have an Acid2 compliant browser in a few days. That's great progress - for Dave.

Are we going to have to wait for 10.5 in 2007 to get a version of Safari that actually renders the same way Dave's copy does?

It took 8 months between the time that Dave posted about XSLT support for Safari here, and the time that we could actually get a copy of Safari with XSLT support.

"if you aren't familiar with alpha channel PNGs and floats, they're two new features microsoft created that aren't available in any other browser."

what

No really. That's actually backwards.

Rico: Neither PNGs or Floats are inventions of Microsoft, plus Safari already supports both. An example of PNG support can be seen in the upcoming Dashboard widgets in Tiger, the main image of the widgets is a PNG.

I think rico was being sarcastic, implying that Microsoft will use IE7 as an opportunity to claim they are breaking new grounds with web-standards compliance, and the marketing wording will imply no-one else could have done it.

Matt

i was wondering, too, if you can give us any information about a next safari release - or is that something that is up to the "powers that be" and not you personally? specifically, i'm wondering if these changes might make it back to panther, or if this is all going forward to tiger? thanks again for the great work - safari is a fantastic browser, and i can't wait to see the rss support in the tiger release.

I wonder, can Dave fix the rendering of Acid2 so much faster than the Mozilla team because:

1. KHTML is much simpler to work with (i.e. more transparent codebase)
2. Dave can just work on Safari without everything having to go through a committee
3. Dave has received unholy powers from an Elder God.
4. All of the above?

Given the fact that implementing things like display: inline-block seems to involve a complete rewrite of Gecko, I'd go with 1 for sure.

Item 2 seems to apply as well, although I guess Safari has a bit more extensive code testing program behind it (even though _certain unfortunate things_ *cough*XMLHttpRequest*cough* suggests that that system isn't fullproof.)

Only people working with Dave can verify #3. Do his eyes glow red?

Seriously, though. Dave (or Moz-people), any comments on KHTML vs Gecko? Apple went for KHTML for many reasons, and my guess is that simplicity of the codebase was one of them.

5. None of the above?

I have to admit my previous post was a bit unfair. Of course getting Acid2 Approved® is not something you can sell easily, end user features come first.

Still, the speed at which the Safari team has implemented tons of end-user features AND developer-candy like advanced CSS2.1 is impressive.

I'm just a bit dismayed that Dave fixes all sorts of behavior in two weeks while inline-block display is still a ways off in Moz, now scheduled for 1.9beta, probably Firefox 1.2.

I found that even if the inital rendering of the test was reasonable, when changing text-sizes or browser-window dimensions things got much much worse. I hope these circumstances are taking into account when testing? It would be good to hear a statement about that.

Yes, please make Safari the first browser on earth to pass the Acid2 test!!!

Thanks Dave!

"rico", that was an awesome bit of fake misguided Windows user satire. You rule.

But we would've all gotten the joke sooner if you'd posted under your real name, "Jorge Lopez, MCSE". ;-)

http://www.divisiontwo.com/articles/MacMini2.html

i'll wrap my comments in tags next time. what's scary, is that there's such a high chance of blind zealots saying that kind of thing that it's not surprising not everybody picked up on it.

If we could, we'd be carrying you off the field, riding on our shoulders - you're a rock star! Awesome bragging rights for Apple as well...

yeah, that brown 1px outline of the nose shouldn't be there, and it's not from anti-aliasing. none the less, keep up the good work, dave. i too am curious how long it will take to actually see these fixes released to the end-user, though.

How can you tell it's not from antialiasing? Is there a way to turn off antialiasing in Safari?

Why would there be antialiasing on a graphic object? Seems to me only text would be antialiased.

Antialiasing of a black object on a yellow background would net an in-between colour of dark yellow (#909000ish). This border we're seeing has a different hue to it (it's #B76707), which doesn't make any sense.

If it's anti-aliasing, it's between the red of the background color and the black of the nose. If you copy the source of the test and change the background color for that element to something else (look at the tour page for which element), you'll see that the edge color changes accordingly. It's more obvious when you take a screen-shot of the nose and blow it up.

I've been reading your blog on fixing safari's rendering issues with respect to the Acid2 test and it seems like you're getting it done very fast. I just got one question though. Since safari's rendering engine is based on KHTML, when (if ever) will we see your fixes being merged back into KHTML?

Shhh...the Master is working! It's now the third day since the last report. Once he has recovered from the NoDoze (or does he consume massive quantities of coffee?) and had a good rest, I think we'll be seeing all smiles from him.

I love Safari but what happened to the new update? The whole holding down option and clicking to save anything to where I want it is by far the worst change I have ever seen to anything in my life and I used to be a PC user. No offense but that has to be fixed and switched back ASAP because right now it's intolerable. Why would anyone want to save anything to the desktop? That just creates clutter. I want to save images to folders, why should I have to hold down option for that? Please, please fix this hideous blight.

Jonathan,
It doesn't JUST download to your desktop, it downloads to whatever download folder you have defined and by DEFAULT it's your desktop. I find it easier to change the folder I'm downloading to ONE time then send all the images/assets to that folder.

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if you want to download to a specific folder, try ctrl-option... and before people rant and rave in the future, sometimes Apple changes the modifier keys for different things, so always try some combination of command, option, control and shift.. Such changes should be clarified in some sort of "quick note" about version changes from Apple, but as we can see, Dave and the crew are busy bringing us the best they can..

Dave, send a quick thanks to the entire Safari crew for bring us such a great browser in a fairly short time... congrats!

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