Surfin' Safari: Comment on Implementing CSS (Part 1)

Comments: Implementing CSS (Part 1)

This is quite an interesting insight into how a pro builds a layout engine. I've been trying to think of ways of optimising performance of my IE7 script. The problems are essentially the same - I'm having to compute style rules for elements that are effectively clones. C-A-T and D-O-G have got me thinking. ;-)

Posted by Dean Edwards at May 2, 2005 4:33 PM

It's worth noting that Gecko also does complete sharing of frontend style data when possible for sibling elements, although at a slightly different level (which means we still do style matching for all elements). Rather than check the 10 conditions listed, we just run the rule matching process, and then check if we've matched the same set of rules as another child of the element we're inheriting from. If so, we just reuse the same object containing frontend style data rather than creating a new one. (This works for cousins, too, if the element being inherited from itself shared the data.) Thanks to the rule tree, this is just a pointer comparison, although this optimization has actually been implemented since before the rule tree.

Posted by David Baron at May 2, 2005 4:54 PM

Yes, but running the rule matching process takes time. Simply checking the conditions I listed (all of which are simple O(1) checks) is faster than having to determine which rules match.

Posted by hyatt at May 2, 2005 5:21 PM

random, i know...however...

lets see some full mathML support in safari ;) sure would be nice.

Posted by adam a at May 2, 2005 8:36 PM

How about posting a WebCore patch to support MathML? (Hey, Dave Hyatt, how about putting together something with the Darwin dudes to accept actual patch submissions to Apple's public source code? No one wants to post patches in Radar -- I do it when it's _really_ important, but I'd rather have my contributions public so they can be built on by others. It's supposed to be open source, you know.)

Posted by How bout at May 2, 2005 11:31 PM

amusingly, I am reading this article in NNW (which uses WebCore) and your stylesheet has failed to render!

hehe - goor article tho.

Posted by Duncan Campbell at May 3, 2005 12:19 AM

Man, can you imagine Microsoft letting their employees post a blog entry like this?

"Hey fellas: here's how we made our web browser run really fast."

Awesome, and fascinating.

Posted by Small Paul at May 3, 2005 12:23 AM

Um, wow.

This is only Part 1?

Posted by Joel Bernstein at May 3, 2005 7:50 AM

Heh, so the moral of the story is:

"Don't use sibling selectors in your page if you want Safari to render it quickly."

Hearing you loud and clear, Mr. Hyatt. :)

Posted by iconmaster at May 3, 2005 9:41 AM

A question regarding the comments by David Baron and hyatt:
I understand that the O(1) checks are certainly faster than completing the entire rule-matching process again, but is that the most time-consuming part of the process? It sounds like the Gecko system saves the time of reinstantiating an object containing the front-end style data (a savings that the Safari system is presumably also making) -- how does that time savings compare to the savings of avoiding rule-matching?

If the creation of the frontend style object is much more expensive than the rule-matching process, the Gecko engine might do almost as well as Safari. I was just curious if anyone knows which of these optimizations is more dramatic in practice.

Posted by npdoty at May 3, 2005 10:23 AM

> Man, can you imagine Microsoft letting their employees post a blog entry like this?
> Awesome, and fascinating.

It really is interesting to read Dave's posts. I'm actually a little surprised the _Apple_ lets him post on current coding like this.

I'm guessing the collected posts won't be published in book form by Wiley any time soon, though... :)

Posted by David Oberst at May 3, 2005 10:45 AM

Why wouldn't they let him? They have to open WebCore's source anyway, so documenting things like this doesn't cost them anything extra. Either way, the information is available to anyone who wants it.

Posted by Millennium at May 3, 2005 10:51 AM

one of the things that seem to have gone bad in the new safari, is the flush handling : I have a bunch of very heavy-duty PHP scripts that take up to 30 minutes to finish. I used to put some PHP flush statements in the while loops so that I could see in my browser how far the script has gone. In previous safari, the browser would timely update its window with that flushed info. The new safari doesnt : it sits there sinning its wheel until all is done, and only then will poop out the full resulting page as if there was only one flush at the end...

Posted by jeroen clarysse at May 3, 2005 3:05 PM

To be fair, why wouldn't Apple want all other browsers out there to render like Safari? It would just mean everyone is on the same page (pun NOT intended), and the web would be a better place to be.

Posted by Jer at May 3, 2005 9:50 PM

My name is Corey Lucier and I worked with Joe on Boxely before he left AOL and have been a lead in the effort for the past couple of years since he left. As you probably know Boxely is a toolkit specifically geared towards highly dynamic application interface (vs. content).

Wanted to bounce some random stuff off of you since you are so passionate about your style tree implementation. ;o)

I'm in the process of streamlining our cascading styles implementation. The resulting cascade representation is quite similar to that which you described for Mozilla. Our styles themselves support sibling, tag, attribute and id selectors as well as compound rules for "part" selection. This allows us to morph the cascade for a UI "component" based on the state of that component - and to style not only the gadget but also "parts" of that component as well. A very simple rule would suggest "style my cool button element's label as opacity="30%" when my button is disabled"...or "style my cool button element's fill with an animation="#throb" when my button is hovered".

A complex style node looks something like this in Boxely:

<style tag="columnHeader" fill="url(#columnOutlineGradient)" minWidth="30" inherits="#aolControl" >

    <part name="bg" flex="1" minWidth="0" maxWidth="auto" margin="1" padding="4 10 4 10" fill="url(#headerButtonGradient)" stroke="#555555">

        <state name="pressed">

            <state name="hovered" fill="url(#headerButtonGradientPressed)"/>

        </state>    

    </part>    

</style>

This basic example specifies a style with tag selector (columnHeader) - and has very specific rules for the background "part" of a columnHeader component - this sample node styles the columnHeader background with a vector gradient when pressed and hovered and another when not hovered.

A cascade for the element 'columnHeader' would include include this style node along with any other style nodes relevant for a particular instance of a column header, or any other style nodes that may be explicitly inherited - in this case the inherited style "aolControl".

Long story short, there are two fundamental items I'm digging into. Cascade sharing (potential for memory fragmentation) and override nodes.

The first is as you'd expect, cascade sharing. When a box is created, we first must construct a cascade (essentially a pipeline rule evaluator consisting of linked list nodes linking style nodes together in order of precedence)..the end result of using this rule tree is one or more buckets of common styles.

After we've created a relevant cascade for a particular element, we then must "expand" the cascade (morph it) if the tree contains "complex" rules..e.g. a node such as the one above could morph based on the value of the hovered attribute.

After we have a valid cascade we *then* use the appropriate hashing mechanism to find one just like it in the forest of cascades. Once we find one, we simply toss the cascade we just created (if none is found we keep and it is promoted to the forest).

If a box already has a cascade, but an attribute that may cause the cascade to morph (e.g. hovered in the above instance) - we morph the tree (essentially cloning the original and morphing the tree based on the new values), then run through the matching process again.

The process of constantly building up and tearing down these cascades however (and each node) has a tendency to cause memory fragmentation over time due to the small nodes being created and destroyed. Do you somehow avoid having to build up this "candidate" cascade before comparing with existing cascades? Do you utilized a pool or band allocator for your small datastructure nodes?

The other hot button issue is override nodes... e.g. 2000 elements for example, all locally specifying a few identical styles locally with the same values should of course, if possible, all share the same cascade and style node when possible. If the cascade for these elements contains a complex rule (attribute selector for example), of course we'd only attempt to share when 2 or more elements were in the same "state" attribute wise.

If elements are sharing their local override nodes when possible, the issue is then, not only do we have to look for other cascades when attributes change (for complex style cascades that morph based on states or attributes)...when then have to look for cascades to share each time we set an override style on the element. Has a potential to be very busy.

In a typical content document (HTML/CSS), once the document is loaded, things tend to remain constant so having to constantly morph and swirl the cascades is not as much an issue as with application interfaces (XUL/DHTML/Boxely) that are highly dynamic in nature - e.g. data is flowing and changing, user interaction causes ripples through the styles of elements during interaction much more often than in a static content situation. Finding and sharing style bundles is important for footprint reasons, but must be weighed carefully with runtime performance as well (especially in the case of animated attributes or animated styles that may change the value of an element property 30 to 60 times a second).

Any thoughts in either of these areas? (Fragmentation or aggressive sharing of override styles).

Posted by Corey Lucier at May 4, 2005 4:46 AM

Does Gecko's rule tree consider the order of rules in the match set to be uniquely determined by CSS precedence rules at the selector level, or does it look further and notice that many rules can be applied in interchangable order despite precedence because none of the declarations conflict with eachother? If the latter, it seems like there would be a potentially interesting opportunity that isn't available in a traditional trie--reordering the rules for better caching. In a trie, CAT is constrained to be a prefix of CATERWAUL, but if in the analogous rule tree the T and E rule are interchangeable, the order they are placed in becomes important to the quality of the caching.

Do you have any conception of whether or not it's feasible to create heuristics (fixed heuristics based on domain knowledge, heuristics created on the fly per-page from something like occurance counting of matches for each rule, or some combination of the two) useful enough to outweigh the cost of deciding if rules conflict?

Posted by Stuart Morgan at May 5, 2005 10:48 AM

Gecko sorts the rules by precedence and so when matching rules you always consider them in precedence order.

Posted by hyatt at May 5, 2005 12:14 PM

Hello, I know I'm out of topic here but I noticed that Safari is really taking a huge amount of memory.
About 80 MB here on Tiger 10.4.0 (8A428) and Safari 2.0 (412), even when there is no window open in Safari !
I was wondering if this is a normal behavior or not...

Posted by Thomas Clement at May 7, 2005 5:35 AM

Hi, first, thanks so much for the tomes of invaluable information in your blog! Just stubled accross it. Its great to have such an inside view. Personally I find Safari the most palatable and predicatable browsers to develop for, some great changes in 1.3 - getting contentEditable to work will save one of my clients having to buy a PC just for his CMS...

I think this is an old one, but just came across it for the first time properly today. Please please please can we have Animated GIFs work as background images. Then i can really banish Java/button rendering in a couple of my CMSs. CSS/AnimatedGIF rollovers seem to work well in MSIE6, but in nothing on the mac...

many thanks, Tom

Posted by Tom Cowland at May 7, 2005 4:04 PM

Thomas Clement.

it sounds to me you have either have allot of plug-ins or windows are open.
safari with all windows closed normally uses 45MB top
i have 1.5GB maybe the amount of ram also matters "i don't know"

Posted by mark ringenoldus at May 8, 2005 6:07 AM

it seems safari gets addressed a XX amount of ram when your using it.
there more ram you require for safari the more ram safari reserves.

open up 100+ windows and ram usage can go up to 256MB ;)

Posted by mark ringenoldus at May 8, 2005 6:13 AM

YEA I GOT IT UP TO 512MB.
with opening allot of windows.
here is the image ;)
http://www.spymac.com/gallery/show_photo.php?picid=400381&size=big

Posted by mark ringenoldus at May 8, 2005 6:20 AM

Most of the time I don't get over 45 MB, but sometimes it goes over than that even with all windows closed and no weird plug-ins...
I really don't know what is all this memory taken for...
I have 512 MB here, I will upgrade to 1,25 GB soon.

Anyway, Safari really is a great application :-)
And I'm sure it will keep getting better and better (on the memory side too I hope).

Thanks Dave for your great work !

Posted by Thomas Clement at May 8, 2005 7:21 AM

If high-precedence rules are considered first, wouldn't that mean that general rules are almost always calculated at or near many leaves, rather than being cached near the root of the tree? It seems like that would be costly in common cases where a stylesheet does something like set a font for all paragraphs, but also has various special paragraph stylings unrelated to font for some paragraphs. Or does the categorization mostly negate that cost?

Posted by Stuart Morgan at May 8, 2005 12:08 PM

When building the rule tree, you walk from lowest precedence to highest precedence. This ensures that the more general rules are higher up in the tree (close to the root).

After walking from the low-to-high direction you end up at a final rule node in the rule tree. You then go backwards from high-to-low precedence through the rule tree (from the leaf back towards the root) to discover style data that you need (stopping once that data has been found).

Posted by hyatt at May 8, 2005 1:25 PM

Sorry to be off-topic, but I cannot see how to submit a question.

The site "www.myepisodes.com" doesn't work in Safari, and the guy who runs the site claims this is because Safari does not support "P3P", as defined at http://www.w3.org/P3P/. Here's a quote from him:

The problem with Safari is that it probably don't save session based cookies if they differ from the domain. So safari wants the cookies to come from www.myepisodes.com but infact it is receiving it from myepisodes.xtreme2000.dk. Many "new" browsers doesn't support this feature. If you want to learn about it then it is called "P3P" support. Read about it here: http://www.w3.org/P3P/

Can you confirm is this is accurate, and if so, please fix! Otherwise, please let me know and I'll pass it on.

Thanks a lot.

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The rule is placed into one of four hashtables depending on which category it falls into.

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In answer to Chris Mason's question: safari has options to accept cookies from all sites, no sites, or "only site that I navigate to". I think that third is the default state, good for avoiding ad cookies, but might also affect what you're talking about. Try setting to accept from all sites, that might do it.

Posted by Chris Renner at May 9, 2005 3:17 PM

I'm not at all sure if I'm knocking on the right door, but Safari 2.0 (412) still doesn't support THEADERs properly, they're a bit too narrow (i.e. narrower than the table they are in).

Posted by Pies at May 10, 2005 6:19 AM

Off topic, sorry, but why doesn't Safari like to Cut/Copy/Paste into JTextFields in applets, when it does in AWT TextFields?

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Posted by idiot at May 13, 2005 6:39 PM

(Sorry about my ugly english)
Really interessing :D

Before a CSS interpretation, do you parse the css to know whitch complex thing (1) are into ?

If not, is that mean all think are reserved in memory before reading the CSS file ? (in the counter exemple, you have to store a variable and two functions at least).

(1) : like counters : http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/syndata.html#counter

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Any chance of supporting multiple flowing columns?
http://www.w3.org/TR/2001/WD-css3-multicol-20010118/

I find it the best way to view long content:
http://amarsagoo.blogspot.com/

Cheers,
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Posted by Ari at May 15, 2005 5:04 PM

I know this is off topic, but there are a fair number of poeple with knowledge and influence regarding CSS here, So I think this is worth posting.

COuld someone explain why a % height is not within the CSS specification - as a designer, this is a pretty essential aspect of creating a layout - without this, many hacks, or work arounds are required for layouts.

Alternativly design styles must change to accomodate a programmers view of what a mark up language should achieve.

Is there a logic, or has this been defined by a buch of programmers rather than designers?

Additionally align top, bottom and middle etc is an interesting omission when layouting out box model items...

Posted by Finn at May 17, 2005 4:54 PM

Found a bug in safari. If you have:

blah

Then assign an onmousedown event to that label - safari will crash when you click on the label every time (safari 1.2.4).

Cheers,
Ben

Posted by Ben at May 17, 2005 11:41 PM

Bloody thing.

meant to write: [label for="blah"]blah[/label]

Posted by Ben at May 17, 2005 11:41 PM

Safari 2.0 cannot display the tabs (search tabs) on the yahoo.com frontpage.

Posted by Chris Deeds at May 18, 2005 6:44 AM

One thing Safari 1.0-1.3 doesn't seem to support at all: line-height. I've tried specifying it numerically (1.25, 1.33), in pxin em - nothing changes.

Posted by Dan Knight at May 19, 2005 9:01 AM

Thanks for the great work on Safari. It generally works quite well. But do you have any idea when Safari's improper handling of motion JPEGs (a feed from an Axis webcam) is going to be fixed? It worked with the original version but was broken somewhere along the line. I turned in a bug report, but have never heard anything back and it is still broken in Safari 2.0. One difference with 2.0 is that it it doesn't keep downloading data, it gives an error of "unsupported URL". The same page works just fine in Internet Explorer, FireFox, etc. Actually, Safari is the only one I've tried that it doesn't work in.

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Dan: Re. line-height -- not sure why you're not seeing it work, but I use it all the time (and so do many others), and it works as expected in all recent versions of Safari.

Make sure you don't put a space between the value and the units -- I think that can cause it to fail. (i.e., line-height: 1.5em; *not* line-height: 1.5 em;)

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Lewis Kopp,
In response to your Axis query...

IE doesn't support motion JPEG. Axis supports playback in IE by supplying an ActiveX plug-in to patch up Internet Explorer's inadequacy. I'm pretty sure that Quicktime can decode MJPEG so Axis could fix this problem quite simply by supplying a Safari page that uses Quicktime for playback in a similar manner to the IE thing they provide.

I too was under the impression that it worked with Safari but it's been a long time since I've tried it out. As soon as I figure out where in our lab our Axis video server has been moved to I'll have a play with it and see if I can get it working through Quicktime.

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The algorithm to locate a shared style then goes something like this. You walk through your previous siblings and for each one see if the above 10 conditions are met. If you find a match, then simply share your style information with the other element. Such a system obviously assumes a reference counting model for your front end style information.

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Hi Dave,

I'm fiddling around with canvas on 10.4.1 (Safari v412) and quickly encountered a couple of problems. I tried searching on the web for these things, but judging from the sheer lack of results it feels like I'm the only one on the planet working with Canvas in Safari...

First, context.quadraticCurveTo is not implemented. I read on a blog that another function quadraticCurveToPoint exists instead, but the spec doesn't mention this at all.

Second, I can't get gradients to work. I tried to create a linear gradient from 0,0 to 300,300 (the canvas' full size) and then calling addColorStop at 0.0 and 1.0, setting the gradient as the current fillStyle and calling fillRect, but I just get a black background everytime.

Also, passing in nonsense color values to addColorStop does not yield an exception, as specified by the WHAT-WG spec. And Apple's canvas class spec has an error in that it says that addColorStop is a function of the 2d context instead of the CanvasGradient interface.

More generally, the state of documentation of the Canvas interface is rather dismal. The extra info in the WHAT-WG spec help a bit more, but I since things just don't work, I am rather at a loss as to what to do now.

I think that the canvas element is one of the more exciting things to come from browsers in a while, especially now that Firefox 1.1 also supports it. Now that I mention it, FF treats canvas as an object tag with fallback content. Will Safari follow suit?

Will there be an update to Safari in 10.4.2 that fixes the outstanding canvas bugs? I'll file bugs with radar just in case. Sorry for adding to the spam in your post.

Best regards, Arthur Langereis

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Is there a method we can use to report DOM issues that are causing the behavior of our products to change from one Safari version and OS to another? And to get souch good response time? We’d like to play by the rules but are confused as to how bugs and issues are both reported and prioritized.

And here is a test case: http://www.projectseven.com/csslab/testing/safari/alignbad.htm

On the first page (alignbad.htm), operate the menu. The first pass through all the levels, alignment of the sub-menus vis a vis the parent, is perfect. That is, it is offset both vertically and horizontally. The second pass through the levels, results in the sub-menus at the third level being misaligned relative to their parents. On page 2 (aligngood.htm) the alignment remains perfect. Embedded in that page are the CSS fixes, so just view source and look for the commented rules.

This anomaly did not occur when we developed and tested this product. Testing was done on Jaguar and early versions of Panther. Jaguar is still perfect, while Panther Safari has been updated somewhere along the line with a change that causes this problem. We have no idea what Tiger versions are doing.

Do you have a reason for this anomaly (all other browsers are fine and have been all along)?

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