Nice work. :-)

Incredible! Tabs are a godsend. Thanks, Dave!

Don't thank me. I didn't implement tabs in Safari. :) Darin, John and Chris are the ones you want to thank.

Are there any forums dedicated to Safari discussion? The Apple one is OK but not quite the type I'm looking for.

Here's my question that I can't seem to get answered:

Is it possible to modify the Google search to something else such as Yahoo? I would have guessed that this is specified in a config or .plist file but haven't discovered anything.

The related feature request is having different searches available, possibly through an additional drop-down or in place of the history drop-down (which is nice but lightly used). There are quite a few sites that would be nice to have a quick search for: eBay, IMDB, dictionary.com, weather.com, mapquest, etc.

Thanks for the new version and the layout fixes (and the tabs...props to the right people and all). BUT...can somebody please fix the 60 second timeout thing? It's driving me nuts. When uploading files, if the file can't be uploaded in the 60 second time window (bigger than 1 meg on dialup), the request dies. I understand why the short time period was chosen, but shouldn't it behave differently if the request itself is BIG?

Here's something to work on for the next release...

http://nslog.com/archives/2003/04/14/safari_10_beta_2.php

Great!

Just one little thing...

In Safari Beta 2 (this behaviour has been around since v71, I think) vBulletin forum buttons (new reply and new thread) collapse. This isn't exhibited in any other browser I've tested. (scroll to the bottom of the page) is an example.

Well done. It fixed many of the annoying little errors with our website. I have noticed the tabbed browsing is blazingly quick when compared with even Camino. Well done all around.

Cameron, you want SafariNoTimeout from Unsanity- http://www.unsanity.org/archives/000164.php ...

Good stuff but animated gif bug is still there (see fourth post.

http://arstechnica.infopop.net/OpenTopic/page?a=tpc&s=50009562&f=8300945231&m=2760980165&r=5870980165#5870980165

And still small font issues to be addressed http://daringfireball.net/

Love Safari.
Disapointed that I can only select a full folder in the Address Book tool bar to open in a tab, not individual URL's, to launch in a new tab. Why not just have a simple hierarchical menu to include this? Next version?...

Also, still think the tabs are upside down, as discussed here: http://www.appleblunders.com : safari

BTW, it would be nice if dragging an file from the desktop onto the tab area would open it as a tabbed item :-)

But thanks for the added speed and the tabs themselves :-)

Submit all those hangers on via the bug menu. Man this browser rocks - now off to "bug" the Wells Fargo guys to let me use it on their site!

Sure would like a way to remove underlines from links. This browser convention flies in the face of good design. Every other browser I can think of allows the user to remove this annoying and distracting and graceless convention. I sure hope Safari can offer a chance to remove underlining.

Interestingly, the latest release makes the underline removal of Safari Enhancer inoperable. Too bad, but it would be better to have underline removal built in rather than added on by some external program.

Hotmail is broken. I can login and read my mail, but I can't send Hotmail. The send button, along with the save draft and cancel button, are non-responsive in the compose message window.

Frode, I think it's obvious that the tabs are *supposed* to be upside down. It's just a unique look.

"pb", a forum dedicated to Safari discussion? This site, I guess. :-)

Bummer... my Citibank online banking bug is still unresolved. :(

Dunno why, but the "remember my info" checkbox works on every other browser but Safari. :-/

And Adam, thanks for that link. Will be grabbing THAT next. :)

Just another quick note; draggin an alias from the desktop into an open Safari window does not seem to work anymore. It does work if I drag it to the Safari Icon in the Dock. This may of course be my desktop needing the old restart, just wante to let you know :-)

Oh, I almost forgot another pet peeve. Where's autoproxy? Why is such common browser functionality missing from Safari? Without autoproxy I cannot use Safari to access files on servers elsewhere in my company.

Awsome.

Hey. Stop. There's a bug reporting button in Safari. Use it (once) and you're done. They've gone abobe and beyond the call of duty in offering that button... don't expect them to also read through mountains of posts in this personal blog as well.

having said that... Thanks to all the developers for tab and autofill! The tab groups are the icing on the cake.

Howcum the drudge report homepage all of a sudden doesn't use the monospace font it's supposed to? (drudgereport.com) Previous Safaris looked fine. Apparently certain fonts (Courier) will work on this page but a lot of them, including one I use (Love Letter Typewriter) for some reason will not.
Also, a problem persists with ebay pages where the seller has added the paypal icon for winners to click on and pay. The icon doesn't show up, and text below it is wrongly underlined and active as a paypal link.
Otherwise a great update.

Yes, that's right: abobe.

Durnit.

Nice to have tabs. But why is it that all browsers with tabs does the following:
When you open a new tab and the browser cannot contact the url is removed so the address line i empty.
This prevents you from
a) remembering what tab you opened
and
b) correcting the url

Couldn't underlining on links be universally removed by specifying your own style sheet under Preferences -> Advanced?

Errrgh, just noticed something wonky. http://www.megacity.org/blog/ ... notice how the second line on my blog isn't "taking" the description attributes from the CSS.

Have I got something dorked in the CSS, or is this a weird bug that got introduced in B2?

Mike Young said:
---
Sure would like a way to remove underlines from links. This browser convention flies in the face of good design. Every other browser I can think of allows the user to remove this annoying and distracting and graceless convention. I sure hope Safari can offer a chance to remove underlining.
---

Why not just use a custom CSS document to do this for you? I know it's not as simple as a checkbox preference but the functionality is still there.
Try this:

a { text-decoration: none; }
a:hover { text-decoration:underline; }

Looks great! But I can't get it to work here at work. Any site that I attempt to go to on the outside of our authenticated proxy (MS ISA, NTLM auth) kills the browser immeadiately. I'll being sending the crash log to the bug/feedback page on the safari web site. I'm sure I will love it when I get home!

Thanks Dave & Safari Team ;) The new release is mmm crunchy. Crunchy of course being a good thing, as in 'good crunchy chips'.

Go treat yourselves to some mongolian bbq! And find the black turtlenecked one and make him buy the team a beer tonight.

I downloaded it. Ran for about 30 minutes. Crashed about 10 times. Now I'm back to Camino. I think that this is the worse version yet. It crashes on javascript pop up windows. It locked up while changing the font size. It's slow to load pages. I sure hope it's just me.

Try to remember, guys, that I just work on WebCore. You can complain all you want to about proxy support or cookies or tabs or whatever, but I don't work on that stuff, and I'm not going to manually forward every last non-WebCore bug that people report on this blog, since that would take - well - forever. :)

Excellent. As of this morning, Safari is my default browser!

sheer beauty !

I've also gotten a lot of crashes... I think 6 so far.

Thanks for the reminder Dave. And thanks for a fast and able browser, I need no other! Can you tell me how to get in touch with some of them Tab's people though? It's such an interesting issue :-)

I did help design tabs in Safari (which should be obvious if you see what I did in Phoenix or Chimera). I just didn't implement them in Safari. If you want to gossip about tab UI, that's fine I guess. :)

The new text rendering [no AA in small type] makes most pages totally unreadable. The behaviour was much more pleasing to the eye in the previous beta. See these URLs for more info:

http://nslog.com/archives/2003/04/14/gender_and_technology.php
http://24.44.140.94:24680/galleries/index.html

Also, CSS bugs with :hover. :hover doesn't work on non-text entities. This CSS is valid, but Safari doesn't do anything about it [Mozilla varients render it properly]

http://24.44.140.94:24680/styles.css

Wonderful browser. Thanks, Dave!

so far, this thing flies. i have only 2 minor complaints so far:

tab switching is kind of slow at times, even with only 2 or 3 tabs open.

i'm still waiting for them to get the 'check spelling as you type' pref to stick between sessions.

other than that, this browser is truly amazing. loads pages lightning quick,looks great, and the feature set is starting to set it at par with the other big time browsers for mac.

Cool. Love them, just want more features and a slight change in appearance :-) If they weren't so cool and useful I guess we wouldn't all have such strong opinions on them.

visigothe, safari still AAs everything. I'm not sure what you mean.

Regarding the :hover problem, can you make a little page using that stylesheet that illustrates the actual problem? Just from the CSS, I don't really know what the problem is.

Great work on the CSS improvements, Dave! Particularly the fixes you've made in float handling. Now the CSS "clear" property seems to work properly (whereas certain combinations of floats used to confuse it, as shown at http://www.tim.buchheim.name/~tim/bug.html)

It made my blog look funny before, but now it works. :)

Still having problems with links in :first-child classes.. stuff like: .article:first-child .brieftable .heading { .. ] combined with .heading a { .. } makes the link unclickeable, see the large news item at the temp URL: http://dadaimc.atdt.nu/

Anyone else having a menubar problem with no menu names at all? It may be an extra I've installed, but it didn't happen with v60. When I click it the whole thing turns blue.

Great work. Love the autofill and tabs in Beta 2. I also really like the way that Safari handles the History drop down. It is great and I use it all the time. It is one of the many nice implementations of standard elements that makes this browser the best.

Tab UI:

Phoenix will let you drag a link to the tab bar, which will then open the link in a new tab. Also - dragging a link over to an Existing tab will update the page for that tab. These would be natural enhancements to Safari.

Hi Dave, good work on the latest release, though I'm disappointed that a couple of problems I've bug reported haven't been fixed.

1) News pages on this site: www.eveningtimes.co.uk They seem to do some really fancy CSS stuff to do pages inside pages.
Maybe it's their problem, but it works everywhere else...

2) Focus issues with frames - stops keyboard "command-left" from working as "back". (Also, have to click twice on link before it shows as "visited".) Problem is visible in www.theherald.co.uk

Otherwise, I'm very impressed by the excellent progress being made! Cheers!

The new beta is great. The one thing that I am missing though is something that was mentioned in the "Replace vs. Append" tab issue.

Replace vs. Append?

--------------------------
In Phoenix, you replace instead, so the News tabs go away and are replaced by tabs 6-10. The argument for append is basically that you end up with potential data loss in that you may lose access to the previous tabs by closing up some of the ones you replaced, e.g., if the second group has fewer tabs than the first. This is of course a solvable problem, though, and doesn't justify changing the default behavior to append.
--------------------------
I agree with the 'replace' camp but the 'solvable' problem mentioned above has yet to be solved in Safari. This is solved in Camino. For example, if you have 8 tabs open and then click on a 3-tab group, tabs 1-3 are replaced with the tab group and tabs 4-8 remain where they are. Currently Safari just replaces all of the tabs with the group. I like to browse with a few news sites always open. So when I want to refresh the news I just click on my news group and reload that group while leaving the rest of my tabs unaffected. Please look at doing this in Safari, that's the only major UI issue that I have with it (I still want to see the URL of a link when I mouse-over it). Great work so far, Safari's going to be the best there is.

Enjoying beta 2. Thanks for your work, Dave. I still have two CSS and/or table problems with my blog site. These render correctly in MSIE 5.22 and Netscape 7.02.

First, on my main page (http://www.siterev.com/~davison/main.html) the search box and button are not vertically centered in the line and make the red cell height higher than it's supposed to be.

Second, on my interior pages (for example, http://www.siterev.com/~davison/news/index.html) each day's entry is supposed to conclude with a black line on the bottom of the table. Safari adds an extra line of white space (again unlike MSIE or Netscape) which ruins the effect.

I hope this is WebCore related. =) I filed these issues with beta 1, and will do so again for beta 2. Regardless, thanks again for your work!

it seems to me that the tab's "tab" should attach top an bottom. since changing from one tab to another changes both the page in the main window below (the reason for downward point tabs i assume) and the effects of the controls above. the top and bottom halfs of the browser window are linked in function, so why shouldn't they be visually linked by the tab.
although i admit the name "tab" doesn't really fit this design (even though the function is the same).

ps. mandatory gushing praise for how completely great safari is. (hopefully the rest of apple iapps team is taking notes -speed, app size, etc) thanks for reading.

A new Pref request - add to the bottom one on the General tab
Open Links from applications:
In a new tab.

That way, when reading sites with NetNewsWire and clicking though to websites you can get a single winow with a collection of tabs in ratehr than zillions of windows to manage.

One thing that is kind of a pain is that it saves passwords to the Keychain in a different format than Camino so those of us who want to switch need to reenter every single password into the Keychain. I do love the fact that it does have keychain access...

Now how about keywords like Camino? Way better than a google search bar.

Can anybody shed light on this problem I'm having with my site? (www.theish.net)

My valid XHTML and CSS2 produces an orange bar between my header div & my content div in both Safari and Opera (Win).

I don't /think/ my code is whacked, since it is valid, but I wouldn't rule it out.

Kevin: Turns out that if you tell it to open clicked links in othr applications in the same window, they will go into new tabs. I just discovered that by accident.

Add me to the roster of very happy users. This is neat stuff.

There is a flash problem about showing transparent and opaque flash movies in Safari(b2).
The flash tag is: param name="wmode" value="transparent" and it does not work in Safari, but it's ok in IE and CAMINO.

Please see this site for example:http://www.garoto.com.br/site/site_bra/mini_sites/pascoa_2003/index.htm

>> Regarding the :hover problem, can you make a
>> little page using that stylesheet that
>> illustrates the actual problem? Just from
>> the CSS, I don't really know what the
>> problem is.

I had this problem as well but none of the new versions of Safari addressed it (ie changing background on :hover only works for text, nothing more). Despite Safari being the only browser with this quirk I ended up reworking my site to do the same task differently.

Fast as can be... at killing a battery. :) Seriously though, it would be nice to have the ability to disable disk caching when on battery.

Some notes on the bookmarks bar:

Someone complained that you can't click on an individual item in the bookmarks to make it open in a new tab. You can, actually; command-click it.

Likewise, command-clicking on a folder will open it in tabs. There is an apparent bug: I don't see any way to open an individual item in a folder in a tab. But that's fixable by 1.0 easily enough.

CSS bugs:

p:first-line still doesn't work correctly. Nor does text-transform:uppercase. These two pseudo classes are combined in the following url to a particularly unfortunate effect:

http://www.crgva.org/training/

Thanks for all the hard work on other bugs, though.
It's getting there.

Great release - I like the tabs and had never used them before! One suggestion:

How about an "open in tabs" option for subfolders (in addition to the folders) in the bookmarks bar? The only way to do this now is to open the bookmarks screen and right click on the subfolder.

I hate to sound like an ungrateful complainer, and I'm totally willing to wait if is just an implementation issue, but seconding Daniel Smith's post regarding drag and drop support for the tabs is something I'm terrified will be overlooked. I find that dragging url's to the tab bar is much more natural than doing a contextual click, concentrating on the choices and selecting 'open in new tab'. Dragging and dropping is something I can do without concentration, plus it allows me to reuse the existing stale tabs, so I'm not spending my time housecleaning tabs that are already read.

The issues with the address bar not correctly updating for the tab being viewed is problematic as well. I often want to modify my position within a site, or copy its URI for transmission to a coworker.

The whole concept of mounting ftp: url's to the file system is frustrating as well. I know this is being pushed upon from on high, but if I am browsing through an ftp servers directory structure in order to download something, I don't want to go to the finder. I would have done that in the first place if that's what I wanted. It should be optional.

The last issue is that I have to check two blogs to keep track of your goings on. I thought you were going to cross post Safari stuff on your personal page. I guess I need to make a tab set just for you (or find the easter egg that opens all Hyatt related pages, it is that time of year after all.)

Great work, thanks for all the attention to detail and effort.

Haven't seen any note on this. Is there a way to cycle through a bunch of open tabs via the keyboard? (Like you can #tab through open applications in OS X.)

Now that this version is official, would you mind passing along some of the UI issues observed at http://acm.roosevelt.edu/mt/chandler/archives/000007.html ?

Thanks!

found a nice error in Filemaker again. We've noted a few issues before. When performing a search here are the 2 results we get:

(From Internet Explorer):
http://www.gowood.net/FMRes/FMPJS?File%23=&Class=&Container%20%23=&Ship%20Date=&Arrival%20Date=&Load%20qty=&Location=&Mill=&Status=Staged&Qty%20Totals=&ItemLocation=&-lop=and&-db=millfab.fp5&-layid=10&-token.0=25&-token.1=&-max=25&-format=tablevwcss.htm&-mode=table&-find=

And from Safari:
http://www.gowood.net/FMRes/FMPJS?File%23=&Class=null&Container%20%23=&Ship%20Date=&Arrival%20Date=&Load%20qty=&Location=&Mill=&Status=Staged&Qty%20Totals=&ItemLocation=&-lop=and&-db=millfab.fp5&-layid=10&-token.0=25&-token.1=&-max=25&-format=tablevwcss.htm&-mode=table&-find=

the only difference in after &Class we get a null& which breaks the link and doesn't bring up any records.

~chris
(ps, I also couldn't post this in Safari)

Here's an annoyance:

Maximize a Safari browser window, vertically the bottom edge hits the bottom of the screen (+/- the Dock).

Create the tab bar by clicking on a link.

Delete the last tab so that the tab bar disappears.

Your vertically maximized window will shrink by the tab bar height.

You can play yo-yo this way :-)

I strongly second the request for use or import of Camino keychain entries!!!!

Also, how about tearoff tabs? Have it so that when you load a tab you can drag it off the tab bar and have a new window with that tab's contents pop up, while removing the tab from the starting browser.

For me, the keychain thing is the biggest reason keeping me from dogfooding Safari..

And of course, tabs were a prerequisite without question.. Well Done!

(and, nag nag, how about APSLing the PBProj file so's people can hack on it? ;)

Great beta release. And Command-shift arrow keys moves through open tabs! Finally a keyboard shortcut to do this.

I already filed this as a bug, but perhaps some other intrepid Safarite would be able to help:
I installed Safari v73 on my SO's Mac. When poking around in the prefs, I noticed the option for Address Book autocomplete. I clicked the button to configure, but got an error message along the lines of 'Address Book could not be found.' Problem was, AB had been moved from its default system-installed location. But even after first making an alias and then putting it back, I still got the error. Has this happened to anyone else?

Ooh ooh! Almost forgot!

How about a bookmarks accessible via a Dock right-click, ala the 'toolbar-preferences trick' in Camino?

Safari doesn't seem to get overflow: scroll
http://www.lylestafford.com/People has thumbs that are partly hidden until scrolled. Works in IE and Mozilla.
Nice work though.

did anyone else notice that safari does an extremely poor job spawning new windows (pop-ups), especially if they have their positioning customized by a javascript trigger.

btw, don't flame me. i did my homework =)

Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 1.0
http://www.w3.org/TR/1999/WAI-WEBCONTENT-19990505/#tech-avoid-pop-ups

i'm asking about a possible javascript shortcoming. sometimes you might want to, or have to, spawn a new window. tks, silvasonic.

Tabbed browsing is fine and dandy if that's what you like, but I hate it. And now non-tabbed browsing is severely broken (new windows are a tab-bar-height shorter each command-click). Anyway, submitted as a bug, hopefully someone will fix it soon! Won't be upgrading at home until this is fixed though...

Good to see the StarCityGames.com crash is fixed!

Sorry Dave, I don't know who else to bitch to, but inline spell-checking has got to stick between sessions. This is just a no-brainer. OmniGroup has managed it with OmniWeb 4.5 using WebCore. Is the algorithm some sort of big secret, stored the same place the Finder's "remember my view options" algorithm is, where no one is allowed to see it? :)

There are some problems with css/edge, still. The background in the Distored Spiral demo repeats the background when it should not, but only when there are translucent sections overlayed on it. So if I have three of the tan subject line things viewable, then the background renders on the first two, and repeats on the last one. This is not observable on anything 1024x768 and below, simply because there isn't enough screen area, but on 1280x1024, you'll see the effect I'm talking about (assuming Safari is fullscreen, of course). I've submitted this bug report a few times already.

Safari 73 is quite an improvement--I am very impressed. I have only found one page so far that doesn't WORK properly (though a few will not display properly). That being said, the page is weather.com 's animated radar maps pages (ex. http://www.weather.com/weather/map/90210?from=LAPmaps&name=index_large_animated&day=1 ). The animation says "Animation Loading...Please Wait" but never begins. One can use the provided arrows to navigate the frames, but its not as functional.

Any idea why this happens? I submitted it a LONG time ago (Build 58?) but its still irking me daily when I check my weather forecast.

Good work overall though--my banking site works now! :)

And still no improvement with Hebrew support since the last public beta :-(
Parenthesis are still mirrored, and Hebrew text in Tab titles and in the toolbar is still reversed.
Looks like I'll have to stay with Camino for the meantime...

I just filed the bug on this (again), but there's still no way to choose an alternative style sheet from the user interface. (Yes, I know you don't do the UI, but you should get after them since it relates to CSS and your site has a perfectly nice alternative style sheet. :-))

Most reasonably, what you want here is an item under the
"View" menu (Mozilla goes for "Use Style |>") and maybe have that also show up on the contextual menu.

OK, so I guess it's worth asking:

Should I be filing bugs against the CSS3 selectors tests at w3c.org, or is this a given?

By the way: more of these seem to work *much* better this time around, although there are some glitches in :hover

Love it !! Finally switched from Camino to Safari as my primary browser, (After switching the default font to Times New Roman 16...) as it now renders just as accurately and significantly faster!

Thanks for the great work!!

I think this is a great Beta, but I have one request: Could the pop-up menu please appear on click-hold and not just click-ctrl? Apples one-button-mouse is great, but if Apple wants us to use an extra button to trigger functions, they should put it on the mouse.

I'm sorry to say this but anti-aliasing has gone worse. I've used 9 pix Geneva for ages and Safari v60 made it look quite awful. Well, now with Safari v73 things are even worse. The letters now seem to be much closer together making the 9 pix Geneva really hard to read. Please find some consensus with anti-aliasing or I'm forced to switch to Verdana ;-(

Thanks for the great browser experience. You guys really put another contenders in shame :-)

Yay, background-repeat and background-position work!

<http://www.natural-innovations.com/test/cssimg.html>

Problem:
I have ProFont 9 set as my fixed-width font. When I select a user style sheet, even though the style sheet also specifies 9pt, the text balloons to 12pt. Why is Safari treating the style sheet differently from its preferences dialog?
Also, when I specify <B> (bold) within PRE, instead of ProFont Bold I get Helvetica Bold (also 12pt instead of the 9pt specified).
When I had this problem with TTs inside a table, adding a DocType header fixed it; but it's not fixed for this PRE in the document body when using a user style sheet.
Something is seriously amiss with fonts.

HELP HELP

I've just installed the update and it doesn't work anymore !!!!!
Is there any known conflict ?
I ve tried to download the installer from Apple and reinstall from scratch but it does not work either.
At the moment I'm forced to post this from explorer :-(

somebody save me!!!!!!!!!

Text inside table cells is not inheriting from the BODY specified in a user style sheet. Since BODY is a parent element, I believe that it should.

I've sent a bug report.

Ohhhh nooooo - V73's handling of CSS changes via JavaScript (changing a border or background for instance) is DOG SLOW!!!! I thought it was slow before, especially compared to Camino (which is virtually instant, like all browsers on Windows), but that's nothing compared to how slow it is now?!? Bummer :(

Ohhhh, now I see. This is VERY confusing!
Apple is using the Font Panel to set a font size, but THAT IS FOR SETTING POINT SIZE and Safari is using it to specify pixels instead. THAT is where all the confusion is coming from.

What is this thing Apple has lately for ambiguity? It's screwing us up, dammit! And causing us to waste space on this board and others arguing about pt vs px when we have no idea which is which because Apple didn't bother LABELING anything properly in Safari.
Sheesh.

So okay, now my user stylesheet looks like this:

BODY { font-family: 3Stone Informal; font-size: 12px }
PRE,TT,CODE { font-family: ProFont,Monaco; font-size: 9px }

Safari still refuses to give me a ProFont Bold though, and puts Helvetica in its place.

-Walter

Umm, does Safari's CSS support attribute selectors?
I'd like to add INPUT[type=text] to my user style sheet.

Chris Till: "changing background on :hover only works for text, nothing more"

Yeah. I tried faking it with nonbreaking spaces, but I haven't figured out a way to set pixel widths for spaces to match the width of an image. And even if I could, there's no way to set ALT text for a background image. :/

What I REALLY want is a way to set the *foreground* image on :hover so that we could do image rollovers without any evil JavaScript.

I want CSS to replace JS in as many ways as possible. Image rollovers are a logical place to start. :)

OMG, Chris -- we both posted at the exact same time with messages beginning with "Ohhhh". That's scary! LOL. Who are you? LOL LOL

-Walter

Oh, Chris, now I remember who you are. LOL. But still, OMG. LOL

I've been watching too much Dark Shadows. :)=

Hi Dave,
[body leftmargin=160>
worked in v51, maybe 60 (don't have it to check), but not in 73. Is this a regession or did you all drop support for this? I know it's nonstandard.

>Umm, does Safari's CSS support attribute selectors?
>I'd like to add INPUT[type=text] to my user style sheet.

A lot more of these are now supported; it's worth trying.
Or, you can look at what the testing suite can tell you, e.g.:

http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Test/CSS3/Selectors/current/html/full/flat/css3-modsel-6.html

Generated content also works, although I haven't tested some of the more, uh, baroque possibilities there yet.

Nice job ! but... the autofill is working only in english... is not possible to have the same features and capabilities as IE ?

Still lots of problems with css floats on my own page.

Interestingly, I tried out the latest version of Omniweb which apparently uses the same page-rendering engine (right?). It had problems of its own with my page, but they were different problems. Weird.

* One should be able to drag addresses/bookmarks/etc to the tab pane or to an existing tab. And when a page displays in a new window, there should be an option to force it to create a new tab instead, in case it is not coded to be of a certain size.

* The visual implementation of the tabs seems a little strange to me. Specially if there are only two tabs in a window, the displayed page seems to belong to the inactive tab.

* With the 'always show tab pane'-option turned off, the browser window gets smaller each time the tab pane is displayed and then removed, when there is only one tab. The size of the window should remain the same, imho.

* There are still serious problems when logging in to some cookie-based sites outside .com (or whatever causes the problem), like macworld.idg.se, www.nordea.se and similar. And I would still enjoy if form objects created with innerHTML would take notice of their value-attributes.

* How do one catch a key down-event in Safari using JavaScript?

Over all, I haven't had any problems with the new beta, and it's nice to see that there is work in progress. Keep it up.

Personally, I can't see the idea why the metal-look triggers sheets to be in Aqua, but that's another discussion, I suppose. I'm with the skip-the-metal-in-safari-folks, for what that matters.

First off, thanks for making a browser that renders my site (http://www.macorchard.com) nicely.

Secondly, one thing missing from the tab implementation in Safari (which is otherwise great) is a single point for closing tabs, ala Mozilla. Sure, command-W works, but browsing is so mouse-centric (and tabs make it even moreso) that I really find the individual close boxes unusable.

Please consider a central tab-closing method that allows me to keep my mouse in one place if I happen to be closing a lot of tabs, one after another.

Thanks!

Drew

Just a thought regarding the tabs.

One things i've never liked abotu tabed browsers is the way the window jumps when you close or open the tabs panel.

For this reason, and this is most applicable on Safari since it's an Apple app. I'd like to be able to have the tabs hanging off the side.

Kinda like drag thing:
http://www.zeldman.com/i/accessories/osx.gif

Or maybe the way iPhoto and stuff work.

I know it's harder to read but it just makes more sense to me. Maybe we could have both options?

Regards,

- Kevin

Safari still doesn't work with Outlook web access sites, I can't believe this hasn't been fixed yet ;)

Great work Hyatt, Darin, John and Chris :)

Safari has been my default browser since v60, and now its even better.

Way to go!

Would love to see a button for autofill, and be able to set the maximum number of sites in the history, and maximum number of days.
Otherwise this browser is great.

Lovely stuff. I have a request (actually, maybe this is here and I don't know about it). One really nice thing about OmniWeb, as a web developer, is the ability to clear the cached username/password sets at will. That means I can try logging in as fred and then try logging in as ralph by hitting the back button and clearing the username cache.

Any chance of seeing that happen?

Also, anyone else having trouble with Digest Auth? I have a website where it barely works (only loads one frame usually) and an internal IP one that works perfectly. So I'm wondering if I've misconfigured one website or if there are other people having difficulties...

Any idea why I can't connect to the ADC site, connect.apple.com?

I haven't been able do this with any version of Safari, even this new beta 2 version.

I never appreaciated tabs before... after 10 minutes I'm already hooked. This version of Safari is really slick.

Awesome job, Apple.

404?

What about implementing Undo/Redo for text entry in Safari, like in OmniWeb?

I used to regularly chat on gay.com chat. They switched to a java based web chat client a whie ago and since then it does not work on ANY mac borwser on the market...not IE, not netscape, camino, or Safari. Their webpage says they are working on it with apple to find a solution but it's been over a year now I belive and nothing has been done. I've sent several bug reports to apple regarding this issue but it's never been fixed. I thought maybe the newest java release from apple might help but it didn't...and neither did Savar v73. So, what gives??? Does Apple have no love for the gay community?? Hmmm...maybe that's why they got ride of the rainbow apple logo :)

Is it just me, or do my frames suddenly have big margins?

>> Oh, Chris, now I remember who you are. I've been watching too much Dark Shadows.

OMG... how embarassing! Do I know you, or you know me?

Wow the new Safari is amazingly fast! I thought it was good before, but scrolling, in particular, is much smoother now and the whole thing feels generally more responsive. You weren't kidding about creating the fastest web browser on the planet! Thanks! :-)

Is anyone else able to send email via Hotmail with Safari? Could someone at least try and report back here so I can figure out if the problem is with Safari or my computer, please?

Still no image controls? Really, this is a major sticking point for me. I still do 99.99% of my surfing in Mozilla because it allows me to turn off image animations. I can't STAND to have gifs flashing and blinking at me while I'm trying to read an article or what have you.

Domain-based image filtering and cookie blocking would be nice, too. Another feature I'd love to see is a plugin manager so I can enable/disable flash as needed.

Anyway, it's looking a LOT better than the first release! Keep up the good work!

Excellent progress. About tabs, there is one option missing in the prefs General > Open links from applications, the ability for applications to open links in new tabs in the frontmost window. When reading news from an external news reader, it's a pain to have tons of new windows in a browser that knows about tab browsing ;-).

This version is WONDERFUL!

I decided to migrate from Mozilla 1.4 today. All works smoothly, speedier and with the Apple style! ;-)

Serious mega bug!
With the release of v73 a what I think might be a serious bug concerning cockies (or seomething else) was introdused. I'm a uni student (Univerity of Tasmania) we have to logon/authenticate our selfes with the proxy server. I get the login window appearing, I fill out the login information, press login, and BAM!!! Unexpected Quit. I have this problem on both of my laptops runnin 10.2.5, I have RESET Safari. This procedure was a breeze before. I can't even login to post a bugreport since I can't login to out proxy server. Catch 22? Yep.

//Karl

Safari gets even better with the PDF viewer plugin at

http://www.schubert-it.com/pluginpdf/

Cannot recommend it highly enough!

Let me add my thanks to this long list. This is the best implementation I've seen of one of my favoriate browser features - tabs! And now most pages render beautifully, and AutoFill is great, as well. Safari has come of age!

One nice-to-have that I haven't seen before: A contextual menu item that lets you right- or control-click back to the previous page. Used this a lot in Chimera, and miss it greatly in Safari.

Great relase! :-)

... Now - IMHO - the NeXTSTEP should be (among other other, more important things, of course) to also implement a *standard* OS X Aqua look-and-feel for Safari, as similar as possible (and as integrated as possible, I'd add) to the OS X Finder (see icons, etc.)...

Re: Hotmail and beta 2
My office-mate switched to Safari this morning and found he couldn't send mail via Hotmail. I had him turn on the debug menu and change his user agent setting to Mac MSIE 5.22. It's working like a charm for him now.

HTH

Now a question:
Is there a way to refer to tabs in javascript? If so, what is it?

thanks

Is it me or is the font dpi issue is still not working properly? Try www.starwars.com and see the right navigation for yourself. I can emulate this extra large font behavior by setting Camino or Mozilla to use 96dpi. But if Camino or Mozilla is set to 72 dpi, the navigation text display properly.

Why is it that when rendered HTML text is copied out of Safari and pasted into a text editor that *strings of whitespaces* from the HTML source (rendered of course as a single space) wind up in the pasted text? This is horrible!

Bah! The tabs are great, but it still has one problem that prevents me from using it as my every-day browser: the autocomplete is too insisting. If I have typed "http://www.apple.com/safari" into my URL box and read that page, and then try to type "http://www.apple.com" in later, it insists on autocompleting it with "/safari". Thus I have to type in where I want to go, and then look to see if it has decided I want to go someplace else and correct it if it has. Not good in my opinion...

Very strange items here. When I visit versiontracker more often than not I see garbage characters where the descriptions are. This happens on quite a few sites.

When downloading an image it saves as an .html file instead of .jpg.

Password sites are *constantly* asking for passwords. It's almost like the keychain doesn't exist.

Anybody else having these problems? Fixes...?

Forgot to mention it would be great to have contextual menu items for reloading images, frames and pages.

It would also be great for Safari (and the Finder) to have a page splitting feature, i.e. the ability to divide the current (tabbed) web/file "exploration" page into several (horizontal or vertical) internal panes: needless to say, KDE Konqueror already has this (and more!)... :-)

How come when a page returns HTTP 204 'No Content', all pending javascripts (scheduled by setTimeout()) are cancelled? This shouldn't happen since 'No Content' is supposed to provoke zero change in the state of the browser. I have already submitted this via the bug button many times since the very first beta. (Great update except for this repeat disappointment.)

The new "Open in Tabs" function is great. Now I can put the two or three web pages I always visit every day in a folder on the bookmark bar and launch all the sites at one click.

However, wouldn't it be even better if we could have multiple home pages? And option+command+O would open a new window with all the home pages opening at the same time.

The multiple home page idea can also be applied to autofill. Suppose the computer is shared by several people and they have their respective personal information. Then a menu choice "fill info of ..." would be useful. With the connection between Safari and Address book, such implementation would be more natural (fill info from address book?).

Very nice. I was not in the pro-tabs camp but they are nicely done. Good work.

Danish newspaper Politiken (http://www.politiken.dk/) doesn't render properly in beta 2.

Beta 2 still creates anti aliased bar codes on printed Fedex shipping labels which makes them useless!

The bar codes cannot be scanned by Fedex agents, so must be re-printed by them, slowing the process.

I did a bug report on this some time ago, but have seen or heard nothing about it.

Not a problem with other browsers.

Avery Dee

I really, really like using Safari, especially now that there is tabbed browsing! Another feature that I have to say is great is the way bookmarks work -- organizing them is no longer a hassle, and having the option for where to place the bookmark when you _first_ save it certainly helps keep things tidy ;-). One feature I would like to see is exporting my nicely organized bookmarks so that I can use them in other browsers, in my case Chimera, er, Camino. Why would I use other browsers you ask? Well, unfortunately, there are still websites I _need_ to use that don't support Safari yet. That's why I still have browsers other than Safari on my box.

All in all, Safari is great, Many, many thanks to all involved in making such a great browser.

ps -- even if one couldn't export bookmarks directly, are there any other possibilities for doing this?

new safari totally ROCKS.. thanks.

I thought my version was hopelessly corrupt but it appears that it's choking on my own site and the whole application crashes. I cannot figure out for the life of me what I have on my page (url in this comment) that is crashing Safari. I've reported it as a bug, but any ideas would be most welcome.

It's xhtml 1.0 strict, but uses some proprietary -moz CSS declarations. Otherwise, standard JavaScript and php coding. Didn't crash the first version of Safari.

+ Offline mode +

Thanks for the tabs!!
Very usefull, time and cost saving. Especially if you have a slow (56k or slower) connection, and/or if you have to pay the amount of minutes you are online. This could happen, if you are in Europe, or use a mobile connection (like GMS, GPRS, HSCD, WLAN, 3G, etc.).

My wish:
* For the same reason, as writen above, there should be an *offline mode*. As we know it from Internet Explorer, Mozilla, etc.

In addition, following features would make the Safari offline mode smart:

* Safari _automatically_ falls into offline mode, when the internet connection is closed. And vice versa: if you are online again, automatically Safari is in online mode.

* To indicate online or offline mode: Safari online has the 'brushed metal' look, offline it's 'aqua'.

* Every offline page has a new smal field, that shows: "stored at [date] [time] / [days, hours, minutes] ago". Of course, you see the original url.

* Links, who are not available offline, should be indicated with "?". By clicking the link, the computer automatically is going online. (You can study the sign and this behaviour at the Internet Explorer for Windows). If you open the link in a new tab, Safari waits until you go online manually, then it's loading all those offline not available tabs.

+ Slow and expensive internet connection - how Safari could help +

If you pay the time you are online, tabs and offline browsing are very helpfull. Here in Europe I pay 0.02 ? (for 56k or DSL) per minute. If I drive 100 miles I am abroad. Then using my mobile phone to go online (9.6 - 40k), I pay 2 ?/minute! (1 EUR is about 1 USD.) So offline mode becomes pretty important.

Not only in this case:

* I'd like to switch off loading pictures (as in Opera 6/7 for Windows.)

* Instead of "www."-pages, I'd like to visit smal "wap."-pages, which originally are designed for mobile phones. Opera 6/7 for Windows can do this.

+ Tabs to the side +

* I'd like to have the tabs on the side. On my display (1024 x 768) most web-pages lacks space in the down/up direction. Left or right there is enough space. So why not put the tabs (which are a kind of list, are n't they?) to the right side. Perheps, in a sidebar as seen in e. g. mail? Not only for 16:10 displays I think this is the best solution! You can try this layout in Opera 6/7 for Windows.

+ Close all tabs, but not those I have marked +

* With ctrl + click into the tabs, I wish to have a context menu "close all tabs", or better "close all tabs, but not the active one", or better "close all tabs, but not those I have marked (with apple + click)". You can see and try this feature in Opera 7 for Windows.

+ Freeze button +

* What about a "freeze" button, which immidiatly stops every blinking or other annoying, eye-catching movements?

My wonderful Favicon is no more. Is there a change in this version? Other Favicons show.

One more thing:

+ Please save pages complete!

Watching webpages I have stored with "save as" in Safari, all pictures are blank. (My feelings: Against my clear order "save", Apple systematically throughs away all pictures - without even telling me!).
*Please save pages complete, so 'what I see is what I get' becomes true in that point.
- It should be original html and
- one saved webpage should be one thing one my disk.
Perhaps you can associate the pictures, and all other files in an unvisable, related folder. If you move or delete the file, the folder automatically follows. For the needs of professionels, a rightcklick on the visible page file may cause a menu "show unvisible related folder.

Try to select some text aligned justified, or double-click in the end of a word to select it.. Uh.

is there a simple work around to the way safari ignores the disabled attribute in a select tag?

or any idea if it's it likely to get fixed soonish? if not i'll try devising a hack work around.

love safari, btw. my fav and default browser since the keynote address. bin a long long time since i was this happy with a new program.

I have filed a bug report on this, and it crops up on many of my pages.

After a table appearance on a page new p tags don't have a blank line before the new paragraph.

You can clearly see it on these pages.

http://www.wanlesstennis.com/wpctc_history.html
and
http://www.wanlesstennis.com/wpctc_junior.html

if you scroll down those pages at some point after a table (although on the junior page not the first table) the paragraphs will all get slammed together.

It could be my coding, but I think they are pretty clean and of course it is only in Safari and OW4.5 that this issue appears so I think it must be a WebCore thing.

TIA.
Jim

For some reason, loading an IGN page (for example, ps2.ign.com) takes an order of magnatude longer in Safari than in IE or Camino. Plus I get that beachball spinning like mad for a good while. Though I have to admit, I haven't had that problem on any other website..

Further to my previous post on this thread re: my blog crashing Safari, I found the culprit to be CSS3 selectors:

a.class:before {
content: url("/image.gif") "\0020";
}

It's been duly reported as a bug, but I'm putting it out here for others to find if necessary. :)

Using a friend's beta 2 version of safari. Paypal shopping cart buttons are not showing up on my small business's website (http://www.machere.biz)!!

First time using the browser--used to IE 6.0.

Selecting close other tabs is too easily selected when selecting close tab from a tab wih a right click.

Losing all my other tabs is quite painful. This has occurred to me at least three other times so far. Out of a couple hundred tab closings

Without an undo for this misplaced feature I lose far too much work.

I really believe a line spacer between close tab or re-arrangement of the position of close other tabs is called for. In part since this is such a easy to do unintended action causing serious hassle for the user.

Asking for a confirmation of close all tabs would be a nice alternative.

I am happy that close window key combo has been changed to shift command w. Indicating the safari ui team is aware of the seriousness of the loss of an entire window with many tabs.

thx for all the great work otherwise
-kevin

With the release of Beta 2 (and the more recent update for HTTPS issues), I noticed that everything on the Rivals web network has a display error. The left side menus all should have the section titles in black text, not white. Up until Beta 2, I believe they displayed correctly and they display correctly with all other browsers I've seen. Here's a link:

http://www.rivals.com/

I haven't seen anyone else post this up yet, but it has bugged me for the last two versions of Safari. Generally the browser is great, but on many pages, once I clikc past the main page all subsequnet pages are blank. If I hit reload, they're still blank white. Weird. And it happens a lot.

On my MOSX 10.2.5 machine, I've got Safari 1.0 Beta 2 (v74) and it always copies images to the clipboard *upside down*! It did that with v73, too, and maybe earlier, but that's the first version I noticed the problem on.

Has anybody else seen this problem? Anybody know how to fix it? I've tried removing all the preferences files for Safari, the cache, and plug-ins, too.