holy toledo batman! its pure flavor ripoff. even got bullet time! thats pretty sad. man i cant wait to see matrix 2. u all watched the first episode of animatrix? very nice anim and shaders. at least we are seing something good coming out os square in the movie front.

oh and i want to say the tabs and the selectable UA string in the leaked v. 62 roX! thanks to apple and the entire Safari team. the new Konqueror has tabs so i figured Safari wouldn't be far off.

I rather see Cradle to the Grave instead. Chow-Yun Fat doesn't even know matrial arts and movies have us thinking he does. America needs that stryotpe in movies I guess.

Selectable UA has been available for a while in the Debug menu.

Oh, and that is really such a ripoff of the Matrix, you're right.

Hey, I know you must hate this sort o crap, but: is someone working on cursor behavior in Safari? I know you work on WebCore and rendering, but it seems like I get strange behaviors for the cursor: remains a pointer over clickable objects, I-insertion-bar over images and such? I imagine this is because of how the cursor is behaving to only certain standards... Anyway, this behavior correction seems like it should be an important fix to Apple, maybe not up there with it's XML rendering, but up there.

And, yes, I'll report this through appropriate channels too, and thanks for pointing out the hilarity of American crap. And I anticipate Matrix 2 too.

While I don't doubt the film will be the de rigueur Matrix pastiche, its source material, a comic book, predates The Matrix.

I know this is not the right place, but...

I feel the tabs ought to be connected to the page not the URL.

Just feels a lot more natural to me, but I'm just one (admittedly pathelically Safari obsessed) guy ; )

Yes Bulletproof Monk is the most blatant rubbish rippoff yet, but I'm sure there will be worse.

/Nf

Matrix ripoff? No.

Remo Williams ripoff? Yes.

I can't wait!

seems more like the twisted lovechild of the matrix and rush hour to me.

and on a side note, not every entry is meant for you to comment with your lame ass safari problems. jeez.

even the row on the roof, train and helicopter

Looks like a good movie to Netflix. I'm a sucker for good wire work.

Not everything that uses "Bullet time" is a Matrix ripoff, John Woo's been doing it for a long time. In fact it's even referenced in the game Max Payne, by the password into the gang laundrett from memory being "John Woo"....

wow. the idea of a matrix ripoff is the best laugh i've had in a week! the matrix is the very definition of "derivative pap" -- reference everything from _dark city_ to _metropolis_.

you don't get to complain about people ripping you off if your only creative work is a shoddy photocopy with some glitter glued on.

Remo Williams... Ahhh now that bings back some fond memories... A cult classic if there ever was... ;)

Whoa. Well, I'm not sure who-ripped-who off, but one thing is for sure - in terms of movies, the Matrix was first. Bulletproof Monk is second and looks like a real POS plot-clone of the Matrix.

Really? The guns in both hands thing was so John Woo in the 80s. Oh well, I guess no one actually know the facts before they post :)

Err...How about /Crouching Tiger/? Not only because of Chow-Yun Fat...
Or maybe we saw different trailers...

Where would The Matrix be without William Gibson? I wouldn't use the word "rip-off" but Jeeez...

William Gibson? Fuggedaboudit.

For some real good old time cyberpunk, try John Brunner's SHOCKWAVE RIDER. I believe it also contains the first description of a software worm.

cr

some points:

(1) This movie looks horrible, it's true.

(2) Not every creative thing that samples previous creative things is a rip-off. The Matrix and Pulp Fiction for example: though they borrow heavily from other materials, they transcend mere rip-off to become unique, innovative, and extremely influential. Hence the saying, 'mediocre artists borrow, great artists steal.'

(3) It's a shame that Chow-Yun Fat is a part of this obvious piece of junk; he used to be cool.

"You move like a pregnant yak."

I loved Remo Williams ;)
James

Wires and slow motion. So boring.

I'm getting tired of poeple re-making the same software^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hmovies over and over.

Okay, very Matrix-like. Okay, very Remo Williams-like (anybody here read the "The Destroyer" series on which that movie was based? Serial crap, but a heck of a lot of fun). Lots of John Woo influence, lots of modern Hong Kong influence.

So what?

Does the movie look boring? IMO, it looks like a lot of fun. Low on plot, perhaps, but who cares, this isn't an Oscar contender. And the actors seem to have good chemistry, and are (arguably) charismatic. So why bash the movie? It may be derivative, but is derivative necessarily bad? I don't think so, and this movie looks to have a lot of entertainment value, though little artistic merit. So, will I pay full evening price ($10)? No, but I'll happily pay matinee prices, and have a blast while I'm there. Those of you who do not like this kind/genre of movie, that's reasonable, don't see it. Those of you who DO like this genre, don't knock the movie just because it is derivative. Derivative does not necessarily mean boring and unentertaining. Feel free to bash the movie if it DOESN'T have entertainment value, and I'll happily join you. From the trailer, it looks like it will be fun. It may not be, but it looks like it will. And other than that, I don't think this movie has much other purpose, do you?

I agree, derivative is not necessarily bad. Antonio Vivaldi was often accused of writing the same Concerto 600 times over. :-) Granted, he was stealing from himself, but it still doesn't take away from their greatness.

A Matrix rip-off. Cool, it should be good then.

Oh, I suppose I only read 60 or so of the Destroyer books (oh my - Unnatural Selection is #131). Healthier than spending my allowance on cigarettes, I suppose.

But that movie - ick.

Actually, Blade had "bullet-time" type effects before the Matrix ever came out, and is a much better movie to boot.

Um, Blade came out several years after The Matrix. Boy, does this ever look like a Matrix rip-off. Not necessarily bad, because it looks like it could be fun. But they worked really hard to link the Matrix with Bulletproof Monk in the trailer.

And why hasn't anybody talked about the subway train in the trailer?

The Matrix wasn't that great! VR is so 80's. Human as power source? As good as Hydrogen, I suppose. (Both are NOT power source!).

Anyway, I don't mind a movie that looks like The Matrix but _better_. It's not that hard, really!

Uhm... Bullet Proof Monk is based on the 1999 3-part comic book miniseries published by Image and Flypaper Press, cowritten by Gotham Chopra, son of spiritual guru Deepak.

It's been rumored that the Matrix was heavily influenced by the Bullet Proof Monk comic, so it's not accurate to call the it a Matrix rip-off.

:-)

If it's true that "mediocre artists borrow, great artists steal" then where does Microsoft fit in?

Derren.

Shane:

Uh, Blade came out in 1998. The Matrix came out in 1999.

But don't listen to me, look it up...

Is Remo Williams the same Remo Unarmed and Dangerous fella?

and will someone please buy me a new mac ... G3 500 iMac doesn't like running iMovie 3, it works but I've been waiting 10 minutes for the obligatory 30 second clip on 4 year old singing.

Remove Seann William Scott from this movie, and you've got "The Killer" part 2, which would make it an incredibly great flick. The trouble comes when you add Stiffler to an otherwise good movie.

microsoft is mediocre as they are definitely borrowing from Apple and others.

Apple on the other hand is great as they stole from Xerox :-)

At least Chow Yun Fat made all the movies in which The Matrix was inspired, so it's not that unfair.

And like someone said above, The Matrix was heavily influenced by Bullet Proof Monk the comic.

Who cares if its a matrix rip, Jaime King is much hotter then Trinity is.

Hey, pH7, if Hydrogen isn't a power source, explain to me how Fuel Cells work, then?

Look up the facts before you post something so blatantly wrong as that. That offends me.

Just for note, just about anything can be a power source. Most stuff just isn't very efficient.

Looks like a good flick, I see only two problems:
(1) The title is unbelievably is silly
(2) Sean "Dude, wheres my beer with semen in it?" William Scott is in a mildly serious role

If it wern't for those two fatal flaws, this might be worth seeing. I just won't ever be able to take stifler seriously though, and it looks like thats what this film is asking of it's audience...

So I guess by now it's clear that Dave is fully aware of the v62 leaks and is unable or unwilling to comment publicly about it. This sort of situation simply wouldn't exist in a real open source project... :(

(not that i blame hyatt at all, infact I feel for him, and would probably do the same things in his shoes)

To set the record :

Blade : Aug 19, 1998
Matrix : March 31, 1999

And Blade used more than just bullet-time effects that were 'copied' in the Matrix.

David, if the movies opened only seven months apart, I seriously doubt The Matrix copied much from Blade, unless they had advanced word.

It takes a long time to finish a movie after you finish shooting, and things like bullet time have to be done _while shooting_, so I am betting we only see synchronicity. Happens all the time, too :-)

Roberto - either that or they were "inspired" by the same thing in terms of bullet time.

Matrix Ripoff? That's rich in humor. The Matrix is more likely a ripoff of stuff John Woo and Chow Yun-Fat did 10+ years ago...

Kevin: Sure. IIRC, by 1997/8, I had seen some of those takes where everything freezes and the camera moves.

From that to bullet time all it takes is a little creativity to make the cameras trigger in sequence instead of simultaneously.

Chow Yun Fat -God of Guns or the God of Gamblers - forget about the martial arts, when you got two guns with never ending clips, you are ready...

...

As I remember it, the execution of "bullet time" was created specifically for The Matrix, but it took so long to develop that movie, and the testing was so public, that even The Gap had commercials on TV using the technique before the movie came out. However, it's called "bullet time" specifically because it was developed for the scene where Neo is dodging bullets. Doesn't anybody watch the DVD extras anymore?

As far as ripoffs go, there is nothing new under the sun. Ripoff or no, I'll watch Chow Yun Fat in yet another martial arts flick any day.

Sure The Matrix was derivative, but it was incredibly well done.

Re: "if Hydrogen isn't a power source, explain to me how Fuel Cells work, then?"

If you use electrolysis to make hydrogen, the "power source" is whatever the power company use to generate electricity (nuclear, hydro, wind, fossil etc.). Lots of energy is needed to put into water to get the H2 out. Electricity is not cheap. It's not economical to make H2 from electrolysis. Actually hydrogen is normally made out of natural gas. CH4 + energy -> C + 2 H2

So, the "power source" for Fuel Cells is usually natural gas.

All fuel cell fans are idiot.

pH7

Just because I can't let this go... :) This page has the real story of Apple and Xerox. It's written by Bruce Horn, who worked on SmallTalk at Xerox and Macintosh at Apple.

http://www.apple-history.com/frames/?&page=gui_horn1

I'm really curious as to what percentage of the lines in Dave's access_log say v62 on them.

Heh, good question.

The Matrix vs Blade "who bullet-timed first?" argument is amusing, but silly: they were both heavily inspired by the "bullet-cam" effects from Chow Yun-Fat's "Full Contact", which came out nearly a decade earlier.

Er, rather, "Tsui Hark's `Full Contact', which (ironically) starred Chow Yun-Fat."

...where by "Tsui Hark" of course I meant "Ringo Lam". I suck today, but MT's lack of threads and post editing suck more.

http://us.imdb.com/Title?0105851

I'm really unconcerned with who-borrowed-what-from-whom regarding all of these movies, as that's all just a part of any human undertaking. What offend me about "Bulletproof Monk" are two things: first, that it portrays a Buddhist Monk as a mean-lean-dual-pistol-wielding-machine, and second, that many, many audience members are going to go home believing that all (or any) buddhist monks are action heroes, happy to whip out their beatstick if the soundtrack is at the right tempo. Which of these offends me more, I can't say.

Err, I wasn't saying The Matrix copied Blade. I was just saying Blade clearly didn't copy The Matrix. :)

who cares if bbm uses effects developed by the matrix team. who cares if the story sounds similar. the story from the matrix is stolen, too. it's clearly derived from the bible, they even re-used some biblical names. all creative works rely on stuff done before them. if they didn't, there would be no progress and our idea of language would still be "ugh, ugh!".

I'm looking forward to this movie, even though it has sean william scott in it. even keanu reeves was a better joice ;-)

on the 'Apple stole from Xerox' message, i think youll find Apple BOUGHT from Xerox a technology Xerox couldnt make cheap enough to be economically viable. Whereas M$ stole the look-n-feel from Apple, M$ even tried to buy it from Apple at one point, but thats all water under the bridge now. Meanwhile M$ continues in an effective monopoly with no sign of it fading, running roughshot over competitors and seemingly Bulletproof Monk protection from any legal action.

Timetrack camara.
http://www.virtualcamera.com/timetracknews.html
I know I saw this site before!
The first Timetrack camara is in Smithsonian.
The Timetrack camara patent was first filed in 1994, and issued in 1997.
http://www.virtualcamera.com/patents/patentsmain.html

The Matrix was just happen to be the first major movie to rent the Timetrack camara. If the BBM people make their own Timetrack camara, it's patent infringement. If they rent the real thing, I doubt you can call it ripoff.

(reading more...)
Well it look like the idea was even older than that. "The creation of frozen time sequences using film techniques is known as Virtual Camera Movement, offered by Digital Air Inc. who have developed the unique Timetrack camera. The Mastermind behind the Timetrack camera is Dayton Taylor. Taylor was originally inspired by the film La Jetée (1962), written and directed by Chris Marker, which consists largely of sequences of still images rather than conventional moving pictures. Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom (1984), where animated sequences were created from images taken by stills cameras, was also a guiding light."
http://www.spgv.com/columns/timetrack.html

I'm not sure I've seen the *latest* trailer, but I'm excited by the Bulletproof Monk.

I hardly think it's fair to bash BPM for being a ripoff or derivative. Bash it cause it looks like it'll be boring, a waste of time, stupid, or for not being entertaining.

The first thing I thought when I saw the trailer in theaters: "This is what the Matrix could have been!" with respect to the fact that Chow Yun Fat is so much more suited for the Morpheus role than just about anyone else I know.

And don't bash on his lack of martial arts skills: You're comparing him to Lawrence Fishburne, Keanu Reeves, and Carrie-Ann Moss!

Anyway, pros:
NOT John Woo, but inspired by John Woo
SFX
Chow Yun Fat
Chow Yun Fat with two guns!
Martial Arts
Gunplay
Based on an established comic and story

cons:
NOT John Woo (but again, I really didn't like MI2 or FaceOff)
Sean Scott Williams
A comic book movie

FaceOff was CRAP in the extreme, not helped my Mr Pensive himself Nicholas Cage. Honestly, he has to be one of the worst actors around. Every expression is the same, furrowed eyebrows, stern chin, dagger eyes - pensive. Gahh. I like the look of the follow up to Being John Malkovich, but theres TWO Nicholas Cages in it, gahhh.

Right. And on top of that, how shameless is it that The Matrix ripped off Karate Kid?! (With Laurence Fishburn obviously playing the part of Mr. Miyagi, Keanu Reeves playing Daniel-san, and Elizabeth Shue as Trinity.)

[Morpheus jumps from rooftop to rooftop.]
Neo - How did you do that Morpheus?!
Morpheus - Don't know. First time.

And we all know that Karate Kid was the very first movie to have an enigmatic sage teaching a naive student about new perspectives as he lusts after a pretty girl. So shame on Matrix and now Bulletproof Monk for ripping off this original concept from Karate Kid. Good thing there have never been any other movies that have this dynamic.

Dave, what are you talking about? The Matrix directorial conception came from the orient. Even the coreographer was from the orient. This is how mostly asian action movies are. The Matrix is a blatant ripoff (or tribute as it's intended but it's all semantics at this point) of every chinese and japanese conception of martial arts. someone needs to go watch their anime. The idea of the protege's acension complete with supernatural understanding of the laws of physics is pretty old. Not ripped off, at least not from the Matrix anyways.

"This is America" is actually Toronto, Canada. Nathan Philips Square, University Avenue, etc. The Matrix was filmed in Auckland so it can't be a rip-off :-)

Yes, http://www.herothemovie.com/ IS amazing. I saw a bootleg DVD of it through my chinese friends. I can't wait to see it in a theater.

Good gods, people...

First of all, the Matrix is not new. It was just something put in a new, interesting, and different light, which is what people like to see in drama and have liked for hundreds, if not thousands of years. People like seeing variations and different things done with the same thing because most of them are leery of completely new things. The Matrix, as it has been proven on their website, was -heavily- based off of Gnostic Christianity and Buddhism (the ideas of 'awakening' and 'seeing the truth' of things, 'freeing yourself'). Like it's been pointed out before, most of the stuff that's in The Matrix has already been done before, just not packaged together the way it was in that movie. So there's no real, valid basis for complaining about lack of originality in BPM if The Matrix didn't have that much new to it, either.
As for Chow Yun-Fat, yes, he does actually know martial arts. One of the laws in China (and at one time in Hong Kong) was that all citizens take the public training in kung fu or some other legally sanctioned martial art. So, at the very least, Chow Yun-Fat does actually have a good idea of what he's doing in these movies. The only reason I know this is because I've been studying martial arts and its prominent people and historical points for a decade now.
I have to agree, also, with the person who made a point about people getting the wrong idea about Buddhist monks. However, I also have to point out that Buddhism in Tibet is very different from Buddhism elsewhere. Tibetan Buddhists are more likely to use self-defense, much like Shaolin monks. It's a simple means of defense and these people study it for a long period of time so they become good enough to win a fight -without- killing -anyone-. So unless Chow Yun-Fat's character is using those guns to disable and not to kill, I can't say that I quite appreciate it very much.

But then again, I'm one of the few martial artists and Buddhists that holds completely different views of what a true warrior really is and how, if you have to fight at all, you've already lost.

Okaaaay, I'm waxing philosophical here, so I'm-a quit while I'm ahead, heehee.

100% Remo Williams ripoff. I'm talkin down to the dodging bullets, ejecting magazines & training a noob how to be a martial arts expert who can defy gravity.