The sheets that warns that a website could not be reached for 60 seconds is really anoying as it prompt the window foremost.

So while I'm reading other pages, a blank window goes in front, just to tell me it wasn't reachable.

Nice Version, but the Cookie Problem still exists.
For example, go to www.macnews.de and try to login at:

dialog->forum->login

If you press "Auto-login" which should save a cookie, it doesn't work. Every other browser can do it.

This is very anoying.
Where is the Problem about accepting cookies?

The rest of safari is really nice and easy to use...

Flash implementation is still incomplete :
1) flash can't post xml
2) Entering a ñ or a ê character in an editable text field is impossible

well, I have to agree about the login/cookie issue. My favourite site won't remeember my login even though I've ticked the box. I'd give you the url but it's a fetish site so you probably don't want to know lol!

Also I have a problem with the Manhattan Portage bag website.
www.manhattanportage.com hardly any of the nav buttons work, so I can't buy anything! looks like a javascript problem but i'll admit it could be the site. I've mailed them to complain and posted a bug thru safari, but I tested on the new release and no fix yet...so i'm nagging you here too.
Otherwise, I use Safari everyday and find it to be outstanding! Thankyou very much for such a sweet incentive for OS X!

I agree with previous post: Flash can't post xml because the data seems to be truncated by one character at the end of the posted data.

That's very important for me because I do a lot of XML-RPC with Flash and PHP.

Another thing, you can't post the euro symbol from a textfield in Safari. That's very important for European users, naturally.

And it seems that the attribute wrap=hard doesn't work for textareas.

That's all for now, Safari team really made a good job on Flash support (much better frame rate), thanks very much.

Agree with jvdl, the same problem appears with macworld.se (http://macworld.idg.se/community/radisar/forum.html). This has to be fixed before the final release!

Safari v60 does not recognize favicons inserted using , while earlier Safaris did. A favicon.ico at the root-level, as on apple.com, does work.

Default values of form textfields inserted using .innerHTML are still not recognized in v60, as in
somespan.innerHTML = ""

Hm. So tags were not allowed. Well, what I wrote was that favicons inserted with -LINK REL='shortcut icon' HREF='...'- are not recognized.

Still got the horrible java-applet-leaving-mess problem when you scroll - go to news.bbc.co.uk, wait for the java ticker to load and drag the vertical scrollbar... ugh. Hope it's on the list!

I recently posted a 'bug' about safari not supporting 'onresize' in a body tag. I was incorrect: onresize is not a valid javascript trigger when used in a HTML element. onresize should be set in Javascript itself. If I would have validated my page/read the spec earlier, I wouldn't have posted the 'bug'.

SFSG with 60 though. Gratz!

Unfortunately the only things I ever found not to work in Safari still don't work. Better Flash frame rate is good though. Incidentally Dave, any chance of shedding some light on the problems with the Flash Player for Mac, is it Macromedias fault, Apples fault, what's the deal? I'm working on some Flash games at the moment and it's depressing to see how much better they perform on a Windows machine than on a Mac. Any info on this from a developers point of view would be highly appreciated as neither Apple nor Macromedia seem willing to speak up about it.
Still with the Flash side of things, would still love to be able to copy and paste using Apple+C and Apple+V rather than right click.
Also, I can't log in to my own site using Safari which is a bit of a pain. I'm not sure but I have a sneaky suspicion that Safari is passing my server admin details through the Flash rather than the site login details. Each time I visit my site after installing a new version of Safari I get asked if Safari is allowed to access my Keychain, even though the front page of the site doesn't require log in. This doesn't seem like the correct behaviour.
I'm getting less of the Spinning Beach Ball of Death now though. which is nice.
Thanks for hearing us out. Safari is still my default browser and a bloody good one at that.

Unlike most other browsers, if you want to compare the layout in b60 with an earlier version, you can actually have both versions running side by side, at the same time! (Having 2 screens helps you remember which is which!)

Below is a very small CSS example. I try to render the text 'abcd' with text-transformation: uppercase and :firstletter in red. That *should* display as

ABCD

(with the first letter red), but *does* display as

ABCD BCD

(with the first four letters in red). This behaviour is new to v60, the previous version had "BBCD" (with the first letter red).

--

<head><style type="text/css">
p {text-transform: uppercase }
p:first-letter { color: red }
</style></head>

<body>
<p>abcd
</body>

* If you've got a drop-down menu from your quick links bar and it's reeeally wide, and your drop-down menu is over near the right side, instead of flattening out against the rightmost side, it zaps all the way over to the left side. Just move a links folder all the way to the right side of the bar, open the menu, and watch.

* Still no SSL proxy support. I can't *use* this from the office without it. Can't read e-mail, cant shop online, can't log into *my own development application* because there's no proxy support.

Always happy to see an update, but I'd have thought the SSL proxy problem would have been ultra-high-priority on the fix list.

Just had my first 'force quit' with the new version, the only two pages I had open at the time were: http://mpt.phrasewise.com/ and (ironically) http://www.mozillazine.org/weblogs/hyatt/

: )

Great work!

The one I would like to see fixed is the CSS overflow: auto.
Right now it just works like overflow: hidden which just loses vital information on a site I am working on.

A good example is here:
http://hotwired.lycos.com/webmonkey/98/15/stuff4a/overflow.html

Yep, missing SSL proxy support is the deal breaker for me as well. In the office (behind a firewall of course), I need to access certain secure sites to get my job done. Not possible with Safari, which I find quite surprising to say the least. Don't get me wrong, it's a great browser already, but I would never have expected this to be an issue. I've never had this issue with any other browser. Is this just an oversight? I have to wonder: How do Apple employees access secure website from within the Apple network with Safari? I can assume Apple's network is protected by a firewall as well, right?

Does anyone else have a rogue Safari showing up in their process viewer? (image -> http://www.eviltwin.co.uk/pics/processviewer.gif )
Showing up as owned by root and with a status of "Zombie". Curious.

Here is an idea that will bring Safari into a new place:

You should render pages offscreen, then do a quick OpenGL or Quartz effect cross fade to the new page.

Watching a page render on the screen is a useful debugging method, but I for one, do not need to see html elements coming in, moving, etc. This confuses the eye, and is tiring. Human interface studies have shown that people think that offscreen renders take less time than onscreen renders.

I know that many pages (many more for those on modems) can take a while to render. I guess you could render off screen for up to a second (or 1.78 seconds etc) then put whatever you have up on the screen. I would make the cross fade snappy, like a quarter of a second or so.

This would make the browser have a more rock solid feel, inline with keynote, os x etc.

Mine is not a GUI issue - I'm raising it here because I seem to be the only one who has it...

While Safari is running, keyboard cursor modifers are disabled in all my Adobe apps - Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, Acrobat - eg: using Command with any cursor usually changes it to a Select cursor. Quit Safari and the modifiers work again. Most odd and a royal pain. I have a Wacom Graphire tablet which may be relevant.

This is a GREAT browser though

Lots of improvements, but still can't log into half.com (just times out), use the Cobalt Qube admin interface (looks like some kind of cookie problem), or use the SLIMP3 web interface (www.slimdevices.com to download the software), which gives zillions of "Connection reset by peer" errors even though it worked fine with the previous version!

Coming along nicely, though...

My biggest problem is the "no https through proxy".

i too expected you would have fixed the secure proxy problem by now. most corporates and universities outside the US use these - if you're serious about picking up market share then you need to get it sorted pronto.

we are rolling out 300 new macs next week - guess what, no safari on them due to the absence of this item. its not even a feature - its a must-have that should have been there from the start.

I am a Japanese Safari user. It is unfortunate that Safari v60 seems much less stable in reading the Japanese homepages than v51. In fact, v60 crashes every one hour so far, while v51 never did. I suspect I will have to go back to v51. I would really appreciate it if Mr. Hyatt corrects those bugs related to foreign language in the future Safari version.

Folks, the "bug" button is actually not the button that says "Comments" on Hyatt's blog. No, in fact, it is the button in the toolbar with the bug on it.

Calle wrote: -LINK REL='shortcut icon' HREF='...'- are not recognized.

Is that exactly how you had it? Try REL="SHORTCUT ICON" instead, since attribute values are case sensitive. (Just a hunch; mine is at the root level, so I can't tell the difference.)

Two rendering improvements I see:
1) Dashed "focus ring" no longer leaves artifact.
2) Nested tables are no longer "off center".

Great work so far, Dave! I'm looking forward to future improvements in
rendering (see my CSS Image Rollover Test page at
http://www.natural-innovations.com/test/cssimg.html).

thanks,
-Walter

Amid all the complaints, I'd like to throw in a thank you. Safari worked great for me before, and works great for me now.

I'm sure most of the bug reports are valid, but in all, thanks for getting us a decent update between an original public beta release and a final version. (Would have been very possible to hold the cards to your chest for a while).

Excellent work. Many of the CSS layout bugs have been address. AND....Flash playback is fantastic now! I feel it is nearly on par with IE/WIN.

Good, now I can Post in blogger.com without close the browser!

Unfortunately, still cant do bugzilla queries, the browser tries to download the cgi. Title attribute on links and images dont display tooltips.

When are you going to fix the PHP-Nuke login problem, which affects sites like MacMegasite & MacMerc? After you log in, when you go to any other page it shows you not logged in.

I don't care about any of the other issues - just fix that one thing. Until that's fixed I can't use Safari.

I frequently send .Mac iCards and still have to use IE because the file list in the "Create Your Own" window doesn't show up in Safari. I haven't tried masquerading as a different browser. You'd think everything on an official Apple site (especially one that we pay money to use) ought to work.

That 60 second timeout thing has to go, or at least have an option to keep trying the connection. Some app servers take that long to render a page, especially under load. Bill payment over the Web is a good example... my bank takes eons before it starts sending out a reply to a request. It's nice to have in there for the newbies, but people who want to wait should have the option, too.

I think Tom's crossfade idea sounds great, and I'd love to see it in Safari. With a preference checkbox to enable/disable it, of course. :-)

Great work on v60! All 3 of my pet bugs have been fixed (without having to resort to posting them on Dave's blog). Now I can actually use Safari on a daily basis :)

You guys should quit your bitching and be a little more patient. They're fixing these bugs as fast as humanly possible. For a browser that's less than a year old, I think their progress has been phenominal. Keep up the good work, Dave.

Nice, it seems to have fixed all my fedex.com issues. Thanks.
PS: Wouldnt it be nice if you hit CTRL Shift B and it took you to Safaris built in Blogging tool? Look at iBlog ,that interface would look right at home with the bookmark tools. We don't need a full blown Composer ala Moz, but a built in blogger for .Mac would very cool.

BK

Thank you for all your had work, especially the effort you are making to keep the community up-to-date with your activities. The speed of the browser is astonishing, sometimes the page comes up so fast I don't even realize it already downloaded (If I blink I miss it.)

Just one note to the community, I recently did three things that has significantly improved my systems performance:

1. I purchased a D-Link I-604 Broadband router allowing me to remove PPPOE.

2. I enabled the 604 firewall which enabled me to disable the built in OS X firewall.

3. I downloaded the free preferences utility MouseZoom which allowed me to significantly increase my mouses tracking speed.

I noticed the first two changes made a noticeable improvemen in the "snappyness" of the system (G4 AGP 500). In addition, the firewall logs immediately showed me tons of port scans going on. I am not an expert in ths area, but I have to believe this was having an impact on my systems performance among other things security wise. So offloading the PPPoE and the firewall makes a difference.

Number three is more a perception thing. Now that my mouse tracks faster, the system seems to be overall much faster. Getting to where I need on the desktop and moving things around now requres no perceived delay. In fact, the experience is so improved, I no longer notice the mouse anymore. Your system is only as fast as your mouse.

The guy who posted about http://manhattanportage.com should ahev actually used another browser before complaining. The same behaviour is seen with Chimera 2003010304, and with Phoenix .50 for MacOS X. So it isn't a Safari problem it is a web designer only designing for IE problem. I mean they don't even declare a DOCTYPE; they are not intersted in standards compliance.

The new version this morning is superb ! It fixed the CSS issues with my blog. And fast. Dave, here's a huge valentine to you and your comrades. Goodbye IE forever !!!

Harvey -- goodbye, until MS adds more proprietary extensions to HTML, JS and CSS.

Dave -- I can't let this post *not* have a single comment mentioning the word "tabs".

Well, the new Safari breaks on my site, even through it worked before. (IE, Mozilla, and Opera all work.) I use to set CSS attributes for a block of text - these now extend beyond the . Please see
http://w-uh.com/index.cgi/articles/030101-frames.html for an example.

Ole

I still have the cookie problem. Particularly apparent on PHP-based boards.

Can't log in to half.com.

Well, the new Safari breaks on my site, even through it worked before. (IE, Mozilla, and Opera all work.) I use span to set CSS attributes for a block of text - these now extend beyond the /span. Please see
http://w-uh.com/index.cgi/articles/030101-frames.html for an example.

Ole

To chris,
i did indeed switch to another browser, however after failing to get the site to work in OmniWeb, Mozillaa, Netscape and Phoenix I eventually had to re-install IE5 to get anywhere.
I realize the fix is not for safari to do, but I just wanted to give an example of a popular site that there browser struggles with.
If you read my post properly you would see that I indeed complained to the website people first. I told MP that I have moral issues using any microsoft producty and asked for there comments on when a standards compliant browser would be ready. so far no comment

The Manhattan Portage bag website does not work in Chimera as well. Works in IE. Monopoly, monopoly! heh heh

I've already sent this bug through the Bug Button, but stil I think its worth mentioning it here.
There is still a problem with some javascripts in some pages (I've already sent them to Apple).
But the thing that really bothered me was the fact that I tried to make a custom iCard through my .Mac account and the windows with my Pictures did not appear! I had to use Internet Explorer to use this feature on the APPLE site!!!
Mr. Hyatt, tell Apple to make Safari 100% compatible with its own site at least! (I've also already sent the bug to Apple).

You freaks should be submitting bug reports to Apple, not on Dave's weblog.

Use the damn "Bug Report" button.

Nobody here cares about the bugs that do not render your lame-ass web pages correctly.

The improved Flash performance is great, but please get Flash Remoting working in Safari. To those of us in the middle of building Flash-based applications that use Remoting (rather than XML/sockets), this is a really big deal.

Many thanks!

Please pass on my thanks to whoever implemented support for the OURL apple event for v60. It's cool to feel like someone is listening to the bug reports. (submitted via the BUG button, btw, not on this weblog....)

Hi Dave,

I've got some strange refresh problem with this version (like the problem I've had with IE since the beginning).

Basically, the contents of a FRAMES do not always appear. Worse still it appears as if the frame isn't there at all.

The only way around it is to resize the browser window and then all is OK. If you check the Events section of the following site http://www.frasercre.com:8080 and navigate to different months you will see no events until the window is resized.

David,

I have access to my own PHP code from my own web site (strike-two.com) and I know the guy who writes the code for Comicboards (www.comicboards.com) message boards, both of which make extensive use of cookies.

Rather than rehash the same details people have already left here, I'm adding a comment because I might be able to offer some help. In my own PHP scripts, I've been able to work around most of the Safari cookie problems, and it may be able to help the development team track down the problems.

Please e-mail me if you'd like to see PHP code samples of what works and what doesn't, as far as scripting cookies goes.

Good job, one thing, is there anyway you can make windows just open up on top of each other. Its better than the cascading effect but I would prefer it just to open on top of the previous window.

Completed Opening the page with 1 error

Haven't noticed this before - is it new?

Anyway, anyone any idea how you can determine or trap the error?

Does the following URL crash Safari like it does for me everytime? http://www.experts-exchange.com/CXO/Operating_Systems/Linux/Linux_Setup/Q_10078234.html

Excellent bug fixes, but titles in the status bar? It seems like a clear waste of eye movement to me. I would be very surprised if user testing showed that users prefer the title attribute to appear in the status bar instead of tooltips. Apple is still user testing, right?

If you want you could have a look at the URL above (or below? whatever?), Safari is not nice there.

When changing one's profile, it deletes one's URL.

Additionally, it doesn't like our umlauts!

Thanks
Ingmar

--
macinplay.de

man, a bunch of grouches in this comment log.

mr. hyatt, fine work. the browser is coming along nicely. as a beta, it's already a much better functioning and better designed piece of software than many of the applications i use daily in their latest incarnations.

cheers.

Walter: Thank you, but LINK REL="SHORTCUT ICON" does not work either (it worked fine with lowercase shortcut icon in v51).

To make myself clear, I too really appreciate the job that has been done to Safari. But I won't be statisfied and switch permanently until Safari really is an option, and Apple probably won't succeed with Safari until their customers are satisfied. Making a new browser is a really tough job, I totally agree with that, but so was making all those almost-okay-browsers available, and I hope safari will become more than that. I also really do appreciate that mr Hyatt shares his thoughts and what's going on in this way. If I wouldn't care about Safari, I wouldn't post here in the first place. The reason why I did not post earlier how well Safari works and how much faster I actually feel that v60 is, simply is that I wanted to keep my post short and informational, to make it easier for the one who has to read it. And the reason why I did not use the built-in bug reporter is that I've already done that. Now that Mr Hyatt takes the time and effort to ask for input here as well, which I admire, I thought it would be an idea to mention the unfixed problems in short. I hope it's not discouraging anyone. (And I guess none doubt that english is not my primary language, so sorry for that as well).

Well. One last thing, while typing. I'd love the "Open link in another window in the background" in the contextuals as well.

Before you one blames Safari for cookie problems, check to see how the site's implementing cookies. In practice I've found a couple of sites who did not use cookies according to the RFC. Safari is enforcing the cookie standards strictly (IMHO it should).

It's getting there... thanks for all your hard work.

I only have a few grumbles that I hope will be addressed before version 1:

1) HTML acronyms and abbrs are weirdly italicized but don't provide any means of seeing what the respective terms actually are... This is currently handled well by Mozilla and I hope Safari follows its example before the final release. The longdesc attribute of images is likewise ignored, but this isn't handled particularly well by Mozilla, either (although it is possible to get at the info with some finagling).

2) Some Javascript that works with Mozilla, IE, Netscape, etc. doesn't work with Safari. I had found a few examples using virtually identical code; the only one I remember off the top of my head though is the local chamber of commerce site http://www.sauguschamber.org/ which has ordinary Javascript buttons that work (seemingly) everywhere except Safari (it uses what seems to be a vanilla version of the old Netscape "Practical Client Sniffer" and thus pigeonholes Safari with Gecko, but Gecko works and Safari doesn't).

3) There doesn't seem to be any way to get at the links provided by the link tag in the header section like you can with Opera, iCab, Lynx, etc. Seeing as how even the Apple web site uses these, it would be good to provide a view option for them at least...

Anyhow, thanks again for all your efforts. It's good to see a really fast Mac browser coming into its own.

Grant,

If Safari is what's causing that problem in Illustrator and Photoshop, I could kiss you. I've been trying to figure out what was causing that, I've been rebooting every couple hours cause I keep running into things I can't get arround without the shortcut keys.

And there are a couple other things I was really hoping would be fixed:

1) cmd+z to undo, it's been implimented, but the only thing it seems to undo is closing the bookmarks when a site loads (hitting cmd+z once opens my bookmarks, hitting it again undoes the last edit I made to a shortcut name or URL) but it doesn't undo anything in form fields.

2) I want to set the spellcheck to always on.

Looks like it has a ways to go, as not one of the 30 or so bugs I've submitted has been fixed. *sigh*

I agree with Matt Davis. Cool of Apple to release another beta release with new fixes. With most Apple apps, we have to wait for ages for updates.

Been using v60 and it works great. Most noticeably, I can actually see your blog in the rust scheme now!

Thanks for your part in this, Dave.

Cheers!

So far, so good. Virtually all of the bugs I reported were
fixed. And the vast majority of Eric Meyer's CSS hacks
now work! (Sole exception: his second ragged float one,
which is close but still has overlapping text; Mozilla also
has the same problem here.)

I know that XML support is still green, but I wanted to know
if other people have seen the problem (visible on the styling XML pages at the w3c.org site) where trying to load
a page of XML that does not have a proper DOCTYPE set up leads to nothing loading and no indication of what went wrong. I'm not sure what the best thing to do here is.

Has anybody found any sites with cool styled XML I can let Safari go on? :-) Also, does anybody know of the secret way to get Safari to use an alternate style sheet? :-)

Strange problem with Nero's website w/ this build Dave.
http://www.nero.com/en/index.html#root
Check it out, the webpage just keeps refreshing.
jesse ;-)

Andy Beaumont wrote: "Incidentally Dave, any chance of shedding some light on the problems with the Flash Player for Mac, is it Macromedias fault, Apples fault, what's the deal? ...neither Apple nor Macromedia seem willing to speak up about it."

No one factor, and it's faster to type the question than the reply (hard to search for, too!)... check here, and please add comment there if qualification needed, thanks.
http://jdmx.blogspot.com/2003_02_09_jdmx_archive.html#89054928

Regards,
John Dowdell
Macromedia support

I want to be able to parse a web page (local or net) for potential bookmarks, and the to import those marks into a my Safari bookmarks file in various spots.

For me, the purpose is to get my Ominweb bookmarks into Safari. The perl scripts out there look like they could do the job, were I a Chimera user, or willing to install it in hopes that the proper hoops could be jumped through.

A better way, though, would be to have a way of grabbing an HTML file, parsing it, and extracting bookmarks in an intelligent way. (Omnigroup uses a single html page, with headers to delimit groupings.)

It would be nice if said reader were smart enough to handle a bit of munging, perhaps ignoring certain bookmarks, and the like. For example (hand edited):

www.goodplace1.com
www.goodplace2.com
www.goodplace1.com

www.goodplace1.com
www.goodplace2.com

should produce something like:

"Bookmarks to be imported:"
^GoodPlaces
x good place 1
x good place 2
_ good place 1 copy (duplicate url)
^BadPlaces
x bad place 1
x bad place 2

The ^'s represent pulldowns to select the group in which the bookmarks will go, with the default being the group or heading pulled from the input source

The _ or x marks represent checkboxes for which bookmarks should be imported.

By checking for duplicates, within the file and within already imported bookmarks, you make it easier to pull in some bookmarks from a file, without getting the 'cruft' bookmarks that a browser maker may have foisted on you. Further, you can always run it again if things have changed.

My wife eschews bookmarks in general, preferring to have a single hand edited HTML page with her bookmarks in it. This would solve that use case as well.

This may be overkill, but would satisfy a need I have had quite often - moving a pile of bookmark info around without having to delete a prefs file. After all, the _first_ time I launch an app may not be the best spot to look at the bookmarks file of other apps. I may have to do some cleanup first.

Scott

Safari just gets better and better as a result of your hard work. Thank You!

I agree with the comment on rendering offscreen. It would seem much more mac-like (to me at least) and would be a great feature (with a preference to turn it off).

I'd also like to see:
- tabbed pane browsing
- more preferences
- a gui way to save movies and flash animations
- another popup menu next to the search field for search-engine. For example, I often do Google image searches and Google groups searches.
- an expanded search in page functionality. Add a popup menu for "depth" with options of "no links", "1 link", "2 links" etc. Then it would search on pages this many links deep. This would be _really_ useful, particularly on the many sites that have an index page with many pages hanging off it. You would need a way of presenting the results, and could use something like the new Finder "find" results. This would be another unique feature for Safari.