I think your troubles with fans just begin : your weblog will soon be the most famous among (mac) geeks. I just received a printed French mac magazine that was pointing to its URL which means 100 000 potential new readers...

Next Safari release will sure see you ascend to the status of Web Deity. Next requests for tabs won't be e-mails but surely real prayers... Things should then be quieter for you ;-)

Good luck

I agree. Also Dave you can do a "form for reporting" bugs, ui features, and let people be happy sending forms...

or... quit comments.

Hear, hear!

or

Here, here!

Whichever applies.

/Nf

Am I the only one who wonders how is collobrating with kde guys going?

Heheh. Welcome to celebrity status. :)

I'm of the wait patiently sort, at least as far as this type of thing is concerned. When it gets here it gets here. For now its still an awesome piece of work.

Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?

Yep, seems pretty annoying to me too.

I came here because I heard about this blog. I am familliar with Dave Hyatt's work from the past and its cool reading his web log. I know better than to request features; they will come when they come.

I always enjoy a good blog. I read several everyday, including this one.

Its amazing how developers get raised to diety level in the Mac community. Gotta love us Mac users!

I have been following your blog since before Apple scored you and got you to come aboard.

Now that the whole world knows of you watch out!

Keep up the good work on Safari..

Question:
How do we report things like on the Apple group discussions when I try to reply to a discussion I get a sudden quit with safari. Chimera works fine.

Using the bug button when at the Apple group discussion forums. That's what it's for - reporting bugs.

Dave, these comments are here because people are interested in the future of Safari. Why don't you suggest to your team at Apple that a page with "future plans" will be created at apple.com? I personally would read it every day!

Yea, I'm sure that idea will fly. Can't you read what the man wrote?

"Also please stop asking me about release dates, when the next release of Safari will be, if there will be nightly builds, what the plans are for builds, etc. etc."

> Why don't you suggest to your team at Apple
> that a page with "future plans" will be created
> at apple.com?

Because the company policy is, and has been for ages, NOT to release future plans. I thought we all know that.

I guess we've all been spoiled with Chimera's more open developement model and somehow expect the same openness from Safari. Knowing Apple, this is not a realistic expectation, but it's inevitable that some people are going to feel that way. Since you, Dave, are the public face of Safari, all these expectations and requests are being inappropriately shoveled on you. The only advice I could give would be to encourage Apple to set up some sort of Safari status page or newsgroup so that people can get there fix without bugging you all the time. Or just put a feedback form on your blog and forward it to /dev/null :)

I'll agree. Leave him alone.

This could all be nipped in the bud if Apple made even a vague statement about when a 1.0 version could be expected. I don't think that's too much to ask and, actually, it's not foreign to Apple.

Why don't you put a FAQ up? i.e. a static HTML page, prominently linked with something like "Questions About Safari?"

Here's one to get you started:

Q: If I loudly and publicly complain like Zeldman, do I get my pet bugs taken care of?
http://www.joegrossberg.com/archives/000415.html
A: No. You don't have enough readers, and bad publicity is what Apple cares about.

I think a lot of the questions and requests for more info, etc.
here could be headed off if Apple's page on Safari were somewhat more informative on what features of, e.g., CSS should be working and which don't. Another issue is that, while I have reported dozens of bugs, it's hard to know whether or not anything is happening with those, or whether I should be reporting a bug that appears to be very closely related to a bug I've already submitted, or if that just clogs up the system.

Any advice here?

hey kids, there's a simple feedback button built right into Safari. Let Dave do his job.

Stay away from my wife, bitch!

Payo: Put that in the faq. ;)

RETRACTION OF EARLIER COMMENT: k.tatroe has corrected me; the CSS bug is not an issue in Safari -- http://www.joegrossberg.com/archives/000415.html

If Dave thinks it is going to stop, it won't. Browsers for Mac have always stunk. I cannot tell you how excited I was when Apple released its browser. Even though I think Cimera, right now, is way better than Safari. You will never be able to quiet the masses now that Apple is in the game. Apple does not need to make Safari into the next OS. (hush hush). Come on, it's a browser, let the children know whats up!

OMG DAVE HYATT POSTED AGAIN I AM ORGASMING.

Dave-
The only way you are going to get people to stop emailing you and commenting on future releases/features is if you turn off commenting or change your email address.

You open yourself up to these questions by regularly discussing things you have fixed and milestones you have acheived. What do you expect from people reading this? It is human nature to be curious.

Perhaps, as was stated, Apple would have a solution to this.

Regards,
Paul

Like I said in an earlier comment, I think this would be very easy for Apple to fix:

Place the WebCore and JavaScriptCore frameworks in public CVS (or just make daily tarballs) so those who are really obsessive about Safari development (like those around here) could produce their own nightly versions.

Normal users wouldn't be troubled by this, since they certainly wouldn't be willing to build themselves a copy, while us real nerds would get a chance to test all of those changes you keep talking about.

Just my 2¢

Hmm. I was just going to email Dave and encourage him to include RSS-parsing features in Safari, but now I am having second thoughts. I guess I'll just hope he reads this. It would be a total killer app, Dave, trust me. :)

>>SMARTER BOOKMARKS
Just a suggestion that hasn't been seen anywhere on any browser :

Some people tend to bookmark a lot of pages, and after a while it gets difficult to find the page you bookmarked.

The bookmark manager in safari is a good start, but it could be better if the content of the page bookmarked was "indexed" (maybe using the same smart technology sherlock uses). One could then easily search all the bookmarks with keywords, like in iTunes...

Wouldn't that be cool ?

Indexing bookmarks? Hmm... Isn't that what Google is for? :P

Hey, David your the only one working on Safari right?

Your not!?! Amazing, you couldn't tell it by some of these comments. ;)

Carlo, as http://www.macosxhints.com states, you can use the Find command in the bookmarks manager.

See, you are getting suggestions from a comment not to give suggestions. To funny.

Slightly depressing, if you think of it as a comment on human nature.

I don't count myself as a Mac god until the Mac worshippers start tithing me 10% of their income and dropping off donations every Sunday.

Come to think of it, that's about the same time I start to pay really careful attention to their "asking if/when UI features are going to be implemented".

;-)

Mr. Hyatt, I think this is pretty much what you are going to get. I'd strongly advise disabling comments if it disturbs you. We'd hate to see you close your blog ... if it is just far too intrusive, then I would suggest making it a one-way communication.

Thank you for blogging, though; many will find it quite interesting.

If the annoying emails are consistent enough, you oughta be able to just filter them right out! Especially if it includes "tabs" etc.

Just like how Strong Bad filters out emails that contain "boxing gloves"

Hi David, totally agree, bug reports and feature requests should be kept out of your blog. In other news, I noticed Safari doesn't seem to support XForms? As lead developer, can you tell us when these will be added? Also, when can we expect tab browsing to be available! Hope All is well!

me

Hi!!

I'm your biggest fan, I love your work very much, and I just wanted to know, when will the next release of Safari be? I love Safari, I use it every day on my Mac and so do my kids!

Thanks again!

Hey, y'all haven't been reading Dave's own statement: "Also please stop asking me about release dates, when the next release of Safari will be, if there will be nightly builds, what the plans are for builds, etc. etc.". Please honor his request, or he just may feel obliged to take down this blog. Now, you wouldn't want that to happen, would you?

I strongly agree with Dave's request.
By the way, can you tell me if and when 'Tabs' are going to be implented?
Also when is the next release of Safari coming out? and will there will be nightly builds? what the plans are for builds?

"hey kids, there's a simple feedback button built right into Safari."

Unfortunately, there's no way to know for sure if it works, as we do not get any confirmation. I did find a "success" line in console.log, but I also saw "sendmail" errors in the very same log. How do I know the sendmail error didn't trump the safari success?
I hope my bug reports arrived, because I have no record of them.
I sent email to Dave asking about this, but never got a reply. I would really like to know whether my bug report submissions arrived at Apple or dropped into the bit bucket, never to be seen.

-Walter

So, just how many MORONS read this blog anyway?

Dave, suggestion, put this in your next blog:

"Please do NOT send me a $100 Amazon.com gift certifciate to Amazon user name davidfoo".

The morons that can't understand this particular blog item and keep making suggestions should get equally confused with this suggested item and make you quite a pile of money to spend at Amazon. Maybe you could buy your own segway.

Bryan

"How do I know the sendmail error didn't trump the safari success?"
Because the bug report button submits by web form and not by sendmail?

I suggest you put something to this extent at the top of your home page in huge, bold letters. If you don't, you will continue to have to repost this message over, and over, and over again...

"Because the bug report button submits by web form and not by sendmail?"

And how would you know that? It's a damn sheet -- could be anything behind it.
I just want proof that ALL of my bug reports arrived. That's not unreasonable, is it?

Does Dave even read these comments? I don't think he's ever responded to any. Certainly not the ones about changing the color to something other than gray on white.

Dave, if you do actually read these, please drop me an e-mail. As an Apple guy and a developer, I'd be interested in slightly more info than the seed release notes give me if possible. If not though, would just love to get to talk with you sometime.

My God, Dave, you have groupies!

I'm shocked at how your readership is ignoring your polite request. Also, can you tell me if and when forms auto-complete is going to be implemented? I really need to know when next release of Safari coming out too. And will there be nightly builds? What the plans are for builds?

Okay, that joke might have been funy the first couple of times. Knock it off already.

I think Dave got mad, took his toys and went home.

Dave? Are you alive?

when is Kate Bosworth Naked coming? i mean really. and please, can i get some Jennifer Garner Naked too? please? Alias is good. and so is Blue Crush.

Guys, this is ridiculous. Dave has responded before, but just give it a rest. I'd rather he spent quality time doing other things. And "gray on white" complainers... maybe that's just how Dave likes it? This site isn't designed like MacNN or MacRumors or what not where user feedback on the layout is important since they need readers. This is Hyatt's personal weblog!

Read it, enjoy it, and if you don't enjoy it, don't read it!

And if you don't think your bug reports are getting through -- too bad! There are currently hundreds of thousands if not MILLIONS of Mac users using Safari. I seriously doubt Apple would program in a bug report feature that doesn't work, but if you're worried, just deal with it.

Good grief! :-)

Dave face it..you are a *star* now. You will be asked for autographs, to make appearances and to be my sons role model. It is your duty.

The price for fame.

If you don't like the color, just 'select all'. Now shut up. And Dave, I seriously hope you've just stopped reading the comments.

I know exactly how you feel, Dave. Really :) Been there, done that.

"Select all" does not make this any easier to read. These comment popups are so hard to read in Safari with the gray on black that i have been resorting to using the "white on black" in the accessibility panel.

I fail to see how anyone with an Apple LCD could stand to read this gray on white text... perhaps its readable on a CRT? It sure isn't here.

"And how would you know that? It's a damn sheet -- could be anything behind it. I just want proof that ALL of my bug reports arrived. That's not unreasonable, is it?"

Your belligerence is matched only by your stupidity.
http://www.macintouch.com/mwsf2003safari02.html

"The connection goes to http://feedback.info.apple.com/feedback2/process.jsp

This is a Jakarta Tomcat server (Tomcat Web Server/3.3.1 Final ( JSP 1.1; Servlet 2.2 )) running a Java Server Page (JSP) to process the multi-part data form.

Your browser sends the submitted URL, your text, a bug type, the Safari version (0.8.1), your OS version (in my case 10.2.3:6G30), and your system information (in my case PowerPC G3 (Single) 640 MB).

There is a session ID cookie, but there's no reason to believe that it's associated in any permanent way with your IP or user ID. It's just standard servlet session management. "

Typically a browser gives me a visual 'look before you leap' clue whenever I roll the cursor over a link. IE shows the target URL for the link at the bottom of the browser window. Safari doesn't show this information at all, and I think it should. Call it paranoi, but I like to know the URL I'm going to before I commit to clicking.

That's my only UI gripe, and I've been using it since day one.

Thanks,
Chris

Hi folks I thought you might be interested in a mock up I made of what Safari should look like if Dave ever caves in on the tabs point. Don't break the Mac GUI:

http://home.quicknet.nl/mw/prive/dennis.scp/s/safari

For Chris: the 'look before you leap' display is part of the Status Bar. Turn it on and you have what you ask for.

I think Safari is great. Unfortunately right now it's been relegated to my browser for pleasure, not work. I do a lot of web production. It involves moving text between form fields in a browser window. Safari doesn't do this right now. Mozilla sort of does it. It's philosophy is copy, not move, which doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I would like Safari to follow the Windows IE method of being able to move text between fields by highlighting the text and then dragging it from one field to the other. That's all I could ask for other than some added compatibility with standards. I think the speed, GUI and simple interface are what will bring Safari into the lead of Macintosh browsers.

Thanks

One thing I would like in Safari is a scrapbook similar to Internet Explorer.

The way I would design this would be similar to adding bookmarks.... e.g. you click the plus button and a sheet comes out to let you name the bookmark and place it where you want.

You could have a save button that when clicked saves the page and let's you name it and place it somewhere in your bookmarks library.

I believe this functionality is available by using the Save As... and Open File.... functions from the File menu.

But this would make it easier to use.

When you ask for trackback implement the system to help people who are not using MT or other blogs system to ping your weblog.

My comments for Safari at

http://www.la-grange.net/2003/02/06#safari

- Keyboard navigation (in Pop up menus as well)
- Auto fill in and autocompletion

Just my ?0.02

-- Alex :)

http://home.quicknet.nl/mw/prive/dennis.scp/s/safari

appears to be a pretty good implementation of tabs for safari in the event you weren't aware...

hope this helps.

I feel the brushed metal "Skin" isn't that great. Chimera "looks" more like a Mac application compared to Safari and is easier on the eyes. So, perhaps skin support would be a good addition??? Thanks!

I followed a link here for MacSlash, this is a tad different from the LiveJournal community, so I'm going to take a stab that you'll see this GUI request... the only thing I see Safari lacking is the ability to hold the mouse button down on a lick and get the contextual menu to appear. That would make it complete to me.

For some reason, when I start Safari and a new browsing window pops up, it always appears off center, to the right with the slider bar to move the page up and down off the screen to the right.

I'm running a Dual 1Ghz Mirrored Door with a Sylvania F72 monitor (17" CRT)

Even if I resize and move the window into position, the next time I open Safari it still opens the new window off center.

Thanks
Mark

He who wishes to secure the good of others has already secured his own.

you should make a firm reminder