doron's blaahg: document.all (aka Finally Something Evil I Didn't Cause)

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July 23, 2004

document.all (aka Finally Something Evil I Didn't Cause)

As expected, everyone is in uproar regarding the undetectable document.all support that landed.

The patch will make some sites work, but probably not as many as people think. Though China sites will definately benefit ;)!

And for the web-standards-are-holy folks out there, have you actually looked at the DOM stuff Gecko supports? We have tons of non-w3c methods, both from Netscape 4 and IE (innerHTML anyone?). Though usually we implement them because the standard has no equivalent.

So be quiet, spread the love of Mozilla, and enjoy the market share boosts.

[EDIT]

We support document.formName and document.forms[], two non standard apis that can be done in w3c land with getElementById. The obvious reason we have them is because this is used all over the web (because Netscape 3 [or was that 2] introduced it before all the document.layers/document.all silliness).

I'm actually against this patch, I liked Sun's idea/patch better, where you had a whitelist based approach.

Posted by doron at July 23, 2004 08:45 PM

Comments

What is it about Mozilla fanboys which makes them act like such condescending twits when someone disagrees with a move the Mozilla org has made? The American Psychiatric Association released a study about that sort of thing a while back. You might want to read it. It's very enlightening.

In the meantime, as you're so hell bent on 100% MS compatibility being the holy grail, you might want to ask your friends at IBM how winning a strategy that is.

Yeah, I know, IBM did other stupid things, you're all smarter than that, blah blah blah. Hitler thought he knew better than Napolean too. That worked out well.

Ah, hell. Who knows? Maybe chasing taillights will work this time. Anything is possible. Forgive me, though, if I don't hold my breath.

Posted by: joe at July 24, 2004 02:31 AM

"Though usually we implement them because the standard has no equivalent."

Isn't that the point? In the past, we've seen implementing stuff people need with no standards-based equivalent as the lesser of two evils, but avoided implementing function which has a standards-based alternative. Seems to me that it was a reasonable line in the sand to draw.

Gerv

Posted by: Gerv at July 24, 2004 03:09 AM

I said usually. We still allow document.formName and document.forms[], even though you could do getElementById.

Heil mozilla, joe.

Posted by: Doron at July 24, 2004 06:53 AM

Well it's not exactly the same as with document.formName case. That is an historical feature which belongs to a period when browser makers were indeed innovating and competing each other created a set of funcionalities which later decame a de facto standard and served as basis inspiration for w3c ratified specs.

document.all its a stupid and non logical diversion from standards, concieved when dom alternatives were already available (correct me if i'm wrong).

Moreover Mozilla today, though still used by a minority, is the leading instrument for the sensible audience of web professionals, which would suggests that choices made in what to support or not could have an influence in how the web change (i mean general trend in web developing practices).

Well anyway let's enjoy the benefits of this patch.

The whitelist note is a joke or what? I don't get it.

Posted by: Antonio at July 24, 2004 08:07 AM

FYI, document.forms[] is standard. And it has a purpose: find forms, and only forms, indexed by name / number.

see http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/REC-DOM-Level-2-HTML-20030109/html.html#ID-1689064

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doron's blaahg

Mozilla :: Web Services :: Web Applications :: Goats

July 23, 2004

document.all (aka Finally Something Evil I Didn't Cause)

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