Asa Dotzler: Firefox and more

What's up with the "Favourites bar"? To me it sounds as if they just added the possibility to stick RSS feeds on it...

I hope their "WebSlices" feature uses the microsummary implementation that we enjoy in Firefox, it would really drive the adoption of microsummaries forward. The only issue I can think of is that the Microsummary header is "X-Moz: microsummary", which could do with being more generic perhaps.

Asa: Do you know if they've been talking to Mozilla about this? I'm sure Myk would be interested, based on discussions we've had before.

What's new at all about the Favorites Bar, besides the name?

Whatever happened to microformats in Fx?

@ben: You can bet it'll be a IE-Only re-implementation of microsummaries "because existing standards were not complete enough"; just like search providers in IE.

If Microsoft can't extend, or ignore HTML/CSS standards anymore, they will do anything to entice developers into IE-only scripting in a race to compete with Firefox extensions, and the open initiatives going on elsewhere like Microsummaries

You'd better point at http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/ie/ie8/readiness/DevelopersNew.htm (otherwise the features are as vauge as they could be possibly made against an end user and not a developer).

Activities look really cool, though it's possible to write an extension embedding them into Firefox as well.

WebSlice are microformats, embraced and extended by hslice container.

Also, session saving in Firefox reloads entire Firefox, not just a tab as Microsoft claims they'll be reloading in WIE8.

As for me, I really like 'data:' URLs now entirely cross-browser.

You missed a couple things. Killer is for your own judgement. Obviously that list isn't comprehensive either (I've played with the actual build), and there's that CSS improvement stuff that firefox already has:

It can crash/restore on a per-tab basis as well as a per-session basis. Also, one hung tab does not hang other tabs. You get that from the Loosely Coupled stuff.

They aren't microsummaries, and yes, the microsummaries implementation doesn't do as much but this does do what microsummaries do (there's extend for you). They are graphical sections of webpages (or even non-webpages; developers can serve up whatever they want) -- helpful for Ajax stuff.

There's also the Ajax navigation. Back and Forward are now Ajax-aware. IMO that's a slight tweak that's huge.

The dev toolbar is updated and now integrated with the browser.

IE7 emulation, you may not agree with it but it's useful and I've yet to see it go wrong side-by-side with a laptop with IE7 -- useful for testing with one browser (since IE doesn't side-by-side install, which is another matter).

At first blush, WebSlices doesn't look to be quite what Firefox has for an implementation of microformats. The Activities function also has an 'interesting' Microsoft slant to it.

At first blush, WebSlices doesn't look to be quite what Firefox has for an implementation of microformats. The Activities function also has an 'interesting' Microsoft slant to it.

That Microsoft/MSN/Live feel to the screenshots almost makes me sick. :)

ie has had malware protection since ie7 ;)

It's a good update for IE users, but it won't make Firefox or Opera users switch. I can already see Firefox usage increasing once 3.0 comes out.

anon, IE had phishing protection with IE 7. That's different than malware protection.

Looks like another version of IE for the "why would I switch? It's good enough" people.

Welcome in "future," Microsoft is promoting the newest and greatest "best practices" for User Agent sniffing: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/ie/ie8/readiness/DevelopersExisting.htm#useragent

Argh...

Yeah you are

ACID2 COMPLIANCE!

Don't let's spend years asking for it and then belittle it when we finally get it.

Give them some credit.

Performance, JS compatibility updates, malware protection, CSS 2.1 compatibility and standards based rendering.

To not call those "features" invites all browser vendors to simply try to add more bells and whistles that don't necessarily focus on the primary goal of a web browser: getting people connected quickly and efficiently with the content they desire, and allowing content producers to build rich online experiences.

Beltzner, good call. I wonder why MS doesn't consider those features enough to advertise them on their IE features list.

Indeed. I'm really, honestly, thrilled to see Microsoft investing in the web again, and cheer on the release of IE8. Playing with the beta is making me realize just how slow and pokey IE7 is on today's websites.

What I worry about is getting into a browser war where the salvos are fired in back of the box bullet points and the casualties are users who must wade hip deep through context menus and options to get to their websites. New user interface features are always fun to include, but only if they're actually solving a problem that users encounter, or enabling some new interaction that speeds the user along in their primary task of interacting with the web. Every product will draw those lines differently, but returning to a point where the merit of the product is based solely on how many of those bells and whistles are "included" without thinking hard about the value (and cost!) of their inclusion will regress us to a messy, unfocused product.

Apple are masters of this (though in the case of web browsers, I find that they drew their lines a little short).

Hm. This is really a blog post of my own, isn't it?

What really sucks is that they still implement proprietary things and wrongly implement standarized things.

They implement some HTML5, but in the most wrong way possible. They implement new JS things and such, without discussing these items in the proper W3C mailing lists.

I just can't believe they still make such big mistakes. IE has to die, sounds harsh but is the only truth. IE ist just not good for the Web.

Sorry for being emotional, I was just hoping they learned from their mistakes ;_;

It's actually much better than I expected. Javascript engine is 5x faster than IE7!! Or, roughly speaking, about as fast as FF3b3 and half as fast as FF3b4 ;-)

There is plenty of other yummy stuff for javascript hackers as well. Resig has the lowdown: http://ejohn.org/blog/javascript-in-internet-explorer-8/

From the Open Web perspective this is good news, because it means javascripters will be less tempted to switch to Silverlight or AIR in order to implement complex webapps. Of course it may be *some time* before IE8 eclipses IE7 and IE6...

--"Don't let's spend years asking for it and then belittle it when we finally get it.

Give them some credit." --

HEAR, HEAR! I think it's great news; Mozilla, which has often talked about how passionately they advocate open standards, should be thrilled. And all the "we was robbed" stuff doesn't wash when Opera uses it; it sounds petty on the part of Mozilla as well. The question is who implements this or that feature best. I just don't see anything that suits my purposes as well as Firefox at the moment. Still, IE 8 looks pretty good, especially considering past incarnations.

I'm just wondering if IE will finally support all of the HTML spec. IE7 still didn't support the Q element.