Asa Dotzler: Firefox and more

Maybe he's talking about some other "Asa D." in the world that talks a lot about browsers. Yeah, maybe.

I found his article yesterday through Digg. Most of it is completely biased, although some points are valid. The fact that he makes no comparisons while using loaded language to make Firefox sound bad is utterly unacceptable, though.
I sent him a long, reasonably well-mannered e-mail about it, but I don't seem to have received a reply. How rude.

I do have to give this guy credit for going through the trouble of collecting all this information from one site(that's probably biased). Noticed how he changed the source of one of them because the webmaster was biased against Internet Explorer. Although FireFox has its downfalls, so does every other browser. There is no silver bullet in world of web browsers. No browser is 100% everything, and he's emphasing the fact that it's slow to load. Although I timed FireFox loading a cold start on my 2.1ghz p4 processor at 5.2 seconds(safe mode). Obviously IE is built into windows and contrary to what he says, over half of the resources that IE needs to start is already loaded when the PC is started. I'm rambling here, but I think that this guy really needs to just stop being so ignorant.

This is unseemly, Asa. Sure, he's lying, but wouldn't it have been nicer for you to take the high road?

Yeah, I know, it's your personal blog and you're not speaking as a representative of your employer, etc. etc. but is it too much to ask that people in influential positions stay above the fray?

Several of the new quotes in the sidebar come from people who visit my site's message boards and have been trying to counter Andrew K.'s rampant spam across the Web. Andrew K.'s response to it was to take various phrases we said, cut out pieces of sentences, and glue them together in order to make it look like we agreed with his article. The quote from Ryan J. was actually about an article I wrote, not the Firefox Myths page. MrFlibble (or rather, FreewheelinFrank) actually said "Some of your web pages are actually pretty good: I personally link to Secure XP." and went on to say how bad Firefox Myths in particular is. Then there's the quote from me (David H.), which is a total hackjob of statements made on my own Firefox Myths article: http://nanobox.chipx86.com/firefox_myths.php

Just when I think Andrew K. can't possibly mislead and/or lie any worse, he pulls stunts like this.

Firas: It's likely Asa has to put up with this sort of crap constantly, being such a public figure. This might've just been the last straw.

His article does raise some valid points, there are unfortunately a lot of myths spread about Firefox, such as it's "full support for web standards" and that it's "bug free" and it's important that such statements be put into the proper perspective. A lot of the myths he disputes are in fact myths spread by those that misinterpret the truth.

For example, Firefox's support for standards is far superior than that of IE, but it is, like all browsers, by no means complete. I suspect the myth about there Firefox being bug free has spawned from the fact that Firefox has fewer severe CSS rendering bugs than IE does, but again, Firefox has bugs just like any other browser.

Of course, I fully agree that misquoting someone for personal gain in completely unethical and must not be tolerated.

Following up from Lachlan's point, does anyone know if FF2 is going to have more complete support for web standards, such as getting the WASP test somewhere near recognisable? Firefox is amazing but, as a web developer, I'm painfully aware that it's support for all web standards isn't as good as it could be - for instance, Opera renders the WASP test a lot better. True, it's miles ahead of IE, but having a browser we could develop future-proof code for at work would cause a huge stir at work and, I suspect, any company relying on very complex web apps.

I hate this guy. He posts on Neowin forums as Mastertech, and hes always posting anti-firefox pro-opera crap.

Kit: No, Firefox 2 is focusing on the interface, using the current rendering engine (Gecko 1.8). Changes to web standards support are going on in the trunk, and will be picked up in Firefox 3.

What a wanker!

... and he recommends using the Avant Browser! Ha!

Ever the classy one, Asa.

Is this hissyfit of yours supposed to boost PR for Firefox?

For those who are defending Andrew, you haven't seen firsthand his immaturity, obstinance in the face of constant correction, his arrogance, his frequent employment of malapropisms, his misrepresentations or his simple lies. He has been banned in most forums for hilarious antics like referencing himself, refusing to listen to anyone else, accusing anyone who disagrees with him of being a biased liar... and so on. Even if the article were well-written (which it is not) or contained legitimate myths about Firefox (I believe it has two), his behavior has nonetheless made me completely sympathetic to Asa's response.

Seriously. Don't bother reading the article. You will learn nothing, except possibly that Firefox has higher system requirements than Internet Explorer--not that this is a common misconception--and that it... get ready for this... isn't bug-free. People and websites like this make me sad, more than anything else.

John R.: He didn't "cry wolf". Andrew K. has made yet another change to his article without the slightest notice in the changelog. I've been watching his article since 1.0.0, and most of the changes to the page have been made with no version increment. Asa's quote has been removed and some of the others have been altered.

By the way, if anyone would like to check if Andrew K. is commenting on your blog or forum under a different name, you can find his IP addresses here: (http://nanobox.chipx86.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=38). Some of the known aliases he has used are: Andrew, Andrew K. (who at one point claimed to be different from the other Andrew), David Dobsen, FFeLEET, GeneralAres, Jim, Joe Somebody, Mastertech, Mike G., NewsHound, Realist, Thor, and Vincent. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Asa Doucheler, HeroreV, and John R. all turned out to be Andrew K., considering that he went by several different names claiming to be different people on one of Robert Accettura’s blog posts alone.

On Jan 24th, I was reading this article: Open Source Taking Up Residence? and "Jim" posted "Firefox a run away success? Or an overhyped product with misleading advertising?" with a link to the Myths site. I took a few moments to reply to his manipulation of the Secunia info to make Firefox sound bad (when Secunia actually shows how much better FF is than IE). I can see why you're so upset. BTW, what's the URL of the post that was trashing his FUD that you liked? :)

here's another viewpoint listing

http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=3712

personally I have several propblems with ff1.5 since it has a memory leak and needs to be closed down periodically by killing the process, otherwise it hangs.

Opera enthusiasts in their forum used this site to trash Firefox. I don't want to speculate, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's actually a planted site by some Opera fanboy. Yes I know, that site appears to recommend Maxthon, but that could be their ploy to deny this very accusation. Anyway, I don't know. But maybe. Who knows.

And the site itself is of course full of garbage, more garbage, and even more garbage.

As for Opera fanboys here flaming Asa, go ask moderators in your forums to be fair and not just single out Firefox supporters for the application of their "rules." Talk about hissyfits! Ha!

I suspect more than opera loving fan boys are posting here. I also think that IE loving fan boys are also due to the posts on channel9. In the end I realize Asa tells it how it is and is more truth than what some people comment on. You know, Asa, you can sue him or something to get that off his site.

Kinda off topic, but I was thrilled today, that Firefox had support for SVG. I found that out only through http://code.google.com/webstats/index.html

Have fun!!!

Asa,
I think you should have kept your cool. There is nothing like forgiving someone or just not saying words like this from a person like you. Just my thought.

Dont waste time on him or any site/forum letting him post. As as said a known spamking, attention seeker, liar, manipulator etc. Has been warned, banned on I dont know how many forums. Cant do much about it...

A wize man once concluded:

I really can't understand his way of reasoning. Either he ends up behind Homer Simpson in an IQ test, or he does this on purpose. The fact that he's misinterpreting and misquoting sources and presents them in a way to brain-inject the underlying, hidden message that "IE is better at everything covered" is so sickening obvious that his rebuttals --basically repeating the same thing-- give me a migraine headache...

You can replace IE with Opera or whatever. Same approach to anything. Give up ;)

Mastertech's banned on the MZ forums, as are his sock puppets. It's pathetic, yeah, but he's got _years_ to go before he's as bad as Andkon etc.

Regardless, nobody really pays much attention to it except people reacting angrily to it. just ignore it and it'll go away.

- Chris

Mastertech's banned on the MZ forums

You have been banned many times at MZ. So what?.

Regardless, nobody really pays much attention to it except people reacting angrily to it. just ignore it and it'll go away.

I hope so. Doesn´t seem to work in your case, though.

I dont see the point of drawing attention to it. I mean really, saying, "dont look at this web site!" is the best advertisement he could of asked for. He's just a guy who doesnt like firefox and made some reasonable although biased statements about it. Let it go.

Just another proof that Opera fanboys are retards.

yfan: Opera enthusiasts in their forum used this site to trash Firefox. I don't want to speculate, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's actually a planted site by some Opera fanboy. Yes I know, that site appears to recommend Maxthon, but that could be their ploy to deny this very accusation. Anyway, I don't know. But maybe. Who knows.

Sebhelyesfarku: Just another proof that Opera fanboys are retards.

I´m sure I missed something...what the hell this Masterjerk´s show has to do with Opera?.

Is this based on something or is it "yet another conspiracy theory I will post on the internet".

Honestly, this is not different from what this Masterjerk guy is doing: spreading FUD.

The guy is expressing his rather biased opinion, which is his right, and there is probably little that can be done about it except to ignore it and spread the good news. He appears to sprinkle in just enought caveats to try to protect himself from libel, although I don't know about the misquotes.

On the other hand, I wonder if his use of the Firefox logo constitutes trademark violation, especially on the misleading "Get Firefox" button. I'd have the lawyers call.

This is highly unprofessional. What if all companies reacted to critics in this way? The Mozilla Corporation needs to deal with such employees!

By the way, I don't know what this has to do with Opera, but yfan is a well known troll, and if you look at the discussion about this myths page in the Opera forums you'll see that it is actually being criticised. By Opera users!

Unprofessional? Asa's calling him a liar *not for what he says on the site* but for the use of a quote from him in a context it wasn't intended.
I too am sickened by his misrepresentation of sources, see nanobox's blog. He even changed the source link so they couldn't put up a disclaimer page to say, you know, this is misrepresenting our site. Confront him on forums (which I myself have) & he'll tell you "the sources speak for themselves".

I agree that it is very unprofessional to post Andrew's email in an official blog of an important Mozilla employee. I would feel personally attacked just as Asa, and to be honest I would have probably done something similar, but it is still inappropriate behavior.
- Showing him as a liar: fine.
- Posting his email and promoting horrible Internet etiquette: very wrong.

I´m sure I missed something...what the hell this Masterjerk´s show has to do with Opera?.

Masterwhatsisface started a thread on his site over in the Opera Community forums. Last I looked, the thread had mostly degenerated into an argument over whether a particular set of speed tests was statistically valid. That's where yfan's coming from, at least.

As for Sebhelyesfarku's comment about Opera fanboys being retards? I think that's just a troll.

As for whether the site was a stealth pro-Opera ploy? I seriously doubt it. Last I looked both the site and the quotes were overwhelmingly pro-IE in tone.

Claiming it's a pro-Opera conspiracy is as dumb as the accusation I read earlier today that the website authroing survey Google just releases, which used SVG graphs that display in Firefox 1.5 and Opera 9 preview and nothing else, was done that ways as deliberate swipe at Opera (in the comments on this post on the survey's accessibility problems).

What's with all the conspiracy theories, people?

(Note to self: read the preview before hitting "Post." I'm cringing at all the typos I missed.)

Let´s see if I understood this correctly:

A guy said something about Asa that it´s not true. Asa posts the guy´s email address in his blog and encourages Firefox fans (that is, we) to spam him with this subject line:

you're a scumbag, andrew

What a classy act and what a classy guy.

He's using me as an endorsement too!

I wonder if all his aliases qualify as breaking the law per this new bill:
http://news.com.com/Create+an+e-annoyance%2C+go+to+jail/2010-1028_3-6022491.html

I've got several (once since that article on the law was published) that use the same IP. David Hammond was even able to tell me what IP's they were.

Oh trolls, how they piss me off.

Does this guy have the right to use Firefox icon? - http://mywebpages.comcast.net/SupportCD/Images/FirefoxMyths.gif

???

just do the american way, sue them all imo!

lawl :D

I am surprised this has just been brought up as there is a thread at MozillaZine about 2 weeks old along with one at DSL Reports roughly the same age.

If a user does not like particular browser use something else and leave it at that. No need to create sites or spam threads with bullshit.

Perhaps MoFo Devs should get out to the forums more often as they would have seen this a lot earlier.

[quote]some points are valid[/quote]Indeed!

Wow. The least you could've done is not lower yourself to *HIS* level and encourage people to spam his mailbox.

Can't forget this line: "two wrongs don't make a right." You expect to deal with his page of FUD (disclaimer: I'm an Opera user and an occasional Firefox user) by publicly encouraging people to flame him? Good luck.

Actually, he's even spammed my site's forums now too;

http://www.techspot.com/vb/showthread.php?p=241652

"A Good Read. :)"

Andrew K. is a despicable internet troll:

Amusement: To some people, the thought of a person getting angry over statements from total strangers is entertaining.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

His latest antics in quoting his distractors in such a way that they appear to be supporting his page is clearly designed to try to anger these people for his own entertainment.

He has done the same thing to me on his page. Here is the quote as it appears in the tributes page of Firefox Myths:

"...your web pages are actually pretty good: I personally link to Secure XP"

Here is the original quote from Nanobox, where it is to be found in the context of critisism of the Firefox Myths page:

"Some of your web pages are actually pretty good: I personally link to Secure XP, but as far as I am concerned you are a busted flush."

http://nanobox.chipx86.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=29&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=16

I go on to say of the Firefox Myths page:

"..the page contains some staggering feats of intellectual dishonesty, and more one-sided presentation of "evidence"."

Andrew K. has gone from intellectual dishonesty to plain dishonesty: mendacious use of quotes and posting responses to his blog under false identities.

He sinks lower and lower and yet doesn't see that he is doing anything wrong, and when somebody loses their temper, it only fills him with glee and allows him to spam his site again with irritating sanctimoniousness:

"How low to spam someone like this."

http://digg.com/software/Mozilla_representative_badmouths_and_insults_Firefox_critics

Not long ago, Andrew K. could pose as a self-proclaimed security expert. Now he is exposed as a biased and unreliable writer with a chip on his shoulder, a manipulator, a liar, an imposter, a prolific spammer and an internet troll.

No point in getting angry, just watch him sink.

Greg, first, I'm not a developer. Second, it's not the existence of the page that bothers me. There are all kinds of anti-Firefox sites out there. It's that this scumbag deliberately misquoted me on his page to suggest I approved of it when the quote he lifted was actually me saying (about 2 weeks ago :-) that another site, debunking his claims, was a good read.

- A

rm20010, I don't care the least bit about his page of FUD. It's his blatant misquoting of me on that page that I find sleezy. It's one thing to post Firefox criticism. It's completely different to attach my name to it like that.

- A

Asa: Alright then. I didn't see the version of his page with quotes from you. Heh, the wonders of silently editing pages.

Maybe it'll do you a favour if you got rid of the last sentence in your blog up there ^^.

Kind of a harsh thing to do. lol could of been funnier, but when your at your last straw, you snap.

he modified the shitbag, what could he have changed? modified: 1-28-2006

lol and to add to that his website isn't even valid html/css.. now thats funny!

http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A//mywebpages.comcast.net/SupportCD/FirefoxMyths.html

Which site are you looking at? The Myths page validates.

Asa, this is definitely a new low even for you. And this isn't the first time you've gotten in trouble for your behavior. I remember when CNET (wasn't it?) pointed out your unprofessional conduct in their blog... You really were desperate back then too.

So how is this different from you lambasting Opera for "claiming" to have 100 million downloads, again? Apart from the fact that the "scumbag" retracted his statement and you've still got yours up for everyone to see?

His site validates? Big whoop, he didn't even make it. The design was ripped from this site: http://www.irc.nix.co.il/

I agree that it's pretty lame to encourage people to spam his e-mail address. But that said, this guy is totally deserving of the name "scumbag", as anyone who's had to deal with him can tell you.

What he deserves or not is not the point. Asa is a Mozilla official, and this kind of behavior is simply not acceptable from a Mozilla employee in his Mozilla blog. Asa is a public figure now, but apparently he does not realize that with that comes responsibility.

Rick: "public figure"? I remember Asa's plot to run for Gov. of Cali... but I don't think he becomes a public figure until he takes office (he didn't win, or even make the ballot IIRC).

"...Good stuff - give it a read." - Asa

Robert Accettura has a nice response to the poorly constructed and mostly worthless article Firefox Myths. Good stuff - give it a read.

---

"It's an interesting read..." - Robert A.

It’s an interesting read, though has a few oddball statements, that really don’t make sense.

---
Misquoting people and without linking to the original posts cannot be tolerated.

Robert Accettura: Asa is being quoted in news publications across the world. He is a public face for Mozilla. He is definitely a public figure, whether you like it or not. If he doesn't like that, he should stop blogging on a Mozilla site.

Oh, and it looks like Mozilla has been caught evading taxes:

http://digg.com/software/Mozilla_Foundation_evades_taxes_on_its_Google_windfall

Oops.

I have dealth with this "person" in a forum. He thinks that he is the next Black Viper. He is nothing but someone who thinks he knows everything.What he knows is NADA.

Rick: Post back when the IRS start investigating the Foundation. Until then, be quiet. You're not helping your credibility by posting what is obviously not a credible article. And for your information, MozillaZine != Mozilla. MZ is not affiliated with the Mozilla Foundation or Corporation in any way.

I think the Mozilla Chief Lizard Wrangler, Mitchell Baker, is a lawyer. She could probably work pro bono and file a John Doe defamation lawsuit against the person responsible for this site. All it takes is a subpoena to his ISP and you have his real identity. Even if you don't win the lawsuit, he will have to pay for an attorney and show up in court. It would be worth it to give him some sleepless nights.

hmm, same guy who posted it to digg posted this:

http://digg.com/security/Spyware_takes_aim_at_Mozilla_browsers

year old news (and still no spyware). hmm. wonder if he has an axe to grind.

Rick: The term "public figure" at least in the western world is reserved for elected officals.

Here's a laugh at the expense of Andrew K. He noticed a blog called 'Open source must die, die' which mentioned his Firefox Myths article, and assumed it was going to support it, (as you might, from the title.) He posted it on his forum only for somebody to actually go to the trouble of reading the blog and find out it actually said:

"Firefox Myths – is truly outstanding for being completely ludicrous."

The title of course was ironic, but Andrew failed to notice this. The rather embarrassing thread was rapidly deleted. But unfortunately for Andrew K., this little episode of him shooting himself in the foot can still be viewed here:

http://www.standards.spiralmindsinc.com/misc/Priceless/

Not so, Robert...
define:public figure
http://www.expertlaw.com/library/personal_injury/defamation.html#3

it did not validate, idiot..

Firefox is a decent browser, but its zealouts do have a tendency to go over the top about it. If you're a developer, then fair enough; but if you're just an average user, put it into perspective... it's just a bloody browser- no need to try to brainwash people into using it! Many myths surround Firefox, and the webmaster of that 'site makes many valid points. Mass psychosis! IE 6 is just as good- and you know it!!

Oh yeah, as for spyware and IE... learn how to configure it correctly!! What a bunch of lemmings!

Haw Haw!

http://www.techspot.com/vb/topic42441.html

Yfan wrote: "Opera enthusiasts in their forum used this site to trash Firefox. I don't want to speculate, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's actually a planted site by some Opera fanboy. Yes I know, that site appears to recommend Maxthon, but that could be their ploy to deny this very accusation. Anyway, I don't know. But maybe. Who knows."

Wrong, read one of his threads in the Opera forums and note how several Opera entusiasts, me included do our best to expose his exaggerations, lies and misconceptions. And spend considerable time in trashing him and his site in favour of, guess what...... Yup Firefox!

His latest one, which I am getting really fed up with. http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=117825

An older one which got pretty tiring too. http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=82717

And what probably is his most dumb thread ever. http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=84834

I'm an Opera fan as well and I'll do everything I can to denounce the loads of bullsh... there is on this so-called "mastertech"'s page.
Just take a look at the whole site, check http://mywebpages.comcast.net/SupportCD/XPMyths.html, a lot of crap in it.
This guy is a Microsoft fanboy, not an Opera fanboy. I think he's just trying to set Opera users against Firefox users.