Asa Dotzler: Firefox and more

And we appreciate your posts as well.

On another note, since your part of the QA process. Can you get some people together to tackle the code reduction/optimization patches? There are dozens that need reviewed. Ben posts on his blog the other day about reducing firefox bloat and well reduce code is one way to do that.

Kurt, I'm not really part of the QA process any more (and haven't been for some time.) My primary focus is on Spread Firefox, community marketing and outreach, and release management.

The review queue backlog is a well known issue and has always existed. There are simply more people submitting patches than there are qualified people to review those patches. I don't think there will be any dramatic changes with this issue any time soon.

- A

There aren't many people at all that can pull off reviews of bz proportions, but there are a fair number of people who can tell whether patches are working properly or not.

Having a patch-works flag or similar might be a way of prioritising reviewer time. Extension authors can help in this respect, as can a lot of third-party builders.

I like how the first post (and its followups) on this item immediately trends off-topic and into a MoCo management issue. I guess it's not OT since this is the post about OT, but it's still ironic.

Asa - it would help if you pointed people in the right direction (if there is one) for the OT comments.

I do the same on my blog -- off-topic comments are often deleted, especially if they're inflammatory or likely to derail an otherwise useful discussion.

Have you considered creating "open threads" like on dailykos?

Yes that Kurt got it....

Kurt, is there a list of bugs with code reduction patches waiting on review? If so, can you point me to it (email the URL to me or something)?

I know, you could have another site entirely, where absolutely anyone could start their own open thread. Call it something like forums.mozillazine.org.

And how can you even think about off-topic comments when the horrors of <a ping> are being shoved down our helpless throats? Why, I outta fork Firefox, and your weblog too, my pretty!

ah!! Asa, if you don´t like some comment or you don´t agree with them, then you will clear them?
what about if the user that comments is not of your affability, also you will erase his comments?
How you are going to determine the limit between "off-topic" comments and opposed points of view?
Asa, do you know what the tolerance is?
or rather I would say Asa knows very well what the censorship is and its application

And the title of this blog should be:
"I appreciate comments that are agree with my point of view"

I've had a few as well, I think it's becoming a community trend. A few trolls going around and having fun.

Rather anoying waste of time.

I still reckon mandatory registration is a good idea. While it certainly doesn't eliminate idiots, it reduces the amount of people who treat any place which doesn't require them to have a valid email address as an appropriate place to mouth off. Not hiding behind anonymity has been an m.o policy for years anyway, not that this is an official blog or anything.

- Chris

Gosh, this is getting abusive already.

and, as usual, you are still slashing opera!

just joking;)

Posted by: Robert Accettura "....A few trolls going around and having fun..." Suffering from the Asa retentiveness? To die at 80 and never having fun, or 60 and be able to say 'Cogito Ergo Sum'...

el_esponjoso: If you can't tell the difference between "off topic" and "opposing viewpoint," please refer to this handy guide:

Post: "I think Firefox should do XYZ"
Comment: "No, Firefox shouldn't do XYZ because..." = opposing viewpoint
Comment: "I like pie!" = off-topic
Comment: "But what about Opera? It doesn't bother with XYZ and works great." = on-topic
Comment: "Firefox sux, Opera rulez" (or vice versa) = off-topic
Comment: "Opera is better than Firefox because of XYZ" = on-topic
Comment: "I think you're a scum-sucking bottomfeeder and probably a terrorist too." = off-topic

Note that Asa only said he would delete off-topic posts -- he said nothing about removing opposing viewpoints. That was your idea.

-- comment deleted --

Kelson , this isn´t my blog and I am not forced to tell which is the difference, it is Asa who must tell how he will difference between off-topic and opposed points of view, but this could lead a type of censorship if the autor of the blog (in this case, Asa) decides to erase a comment that he didn´t like it.
Kelson, why DO YOU THINK that the "off-topic comments" or "opposed points of view" come neccesarily from opera users?. You aren´t saying it explicitly, but to read the example that you put, it seems that so was. Anyone can post a comment in this blog, so it is ridiculuos to insinuate that opera users are the only ones that make off-topic comments or have "opposed points of view" to Asa's one.
I am agree with obligating to a registry of users who want comment in the blog.

el_esponjoso,

It's pretty simple. As you said, this is my blog. You're in my house here and I expect some courtesy. That includes not steering my conversation wildly off topic. It also includes not being rude or insulting to other guests at this blog.

If I don't think something is appropriate, I'll delete it. If I don't think a user is behaving appropriately, I'll ban him. I've got no scruples about either of those actions. I've done it before and I expect I'll do it again.

Call it censorship, call me a jerk, I really don't give a shit. This is my blog and I'll conduct the conversation here how I please. Don't like it? Find some other place to spend your time.

It's that simple. Have a nice day :-)

- A

What do you mean with "If I don´t think something is appropiate"?
If I would have a different opinion to yours then you would classify it like "inappropiate" and would erase it?
Like this blog and many others are public blogs then you should expect opposed comments to yours, you like it or don´t like it.
I don´t call you jerk in anymoment only yourself did it.
And this paragraph:
"Call it censorship, call me a jerk, I really don't give a shit. This is my blog and I'll conduct the conversation here how I please. Don't like it? Find some other place to spend your time."
don´t show that yourself are contradicting with the above statement "I expect some courtesy".

Asa has been very tolerant of opposing points of view. The purpose of these blogs is not to give someone a platform for ranting. If someone is arguing for the sake of arguing, I'd nuke 'em and be done with it.

el_esponjoso: Why do you insist on reading things that people have not said?

I used Opera-related comments as my examples because it seemed clear you were concerned that pro-Opera views would be stifled.

What gave you the idea that "off-topic" and "opposing viewpoint" were in any way related? Off-topic means off-topic. Unrelated to the issue at hand. Nowhere in "off-topic" is "opposing viewpoint" even implied. Nowhere in Asa's posting history is there anything to suggest that he would delete comments solely for containing an opposing viewpoint. There must be hundreds, possibly thousands of comments on this blog that disagree with views Asa has expressed--many of them related to the posts on which they were made.

And how is it that it's perfectly OK for you to walk into someone's blog, accuse them of censorship, act rude and insulting... but if he gets upset that you don't show him courtesy, he's contradicting himself?

Kelson:
Why did you use example relatives to Opera and with opera users, why not with safari and its users, konqueror and its users or even (very little likely) internet explorer and its users?
Why that insistency yours with Opera?
and It isn´t sufficiently clear my statements?
What part of " why DO YOU THINK that the "off-topic comments" or "opposed points of view" come "neccesarily" from opera users? don´t you understand?
Your example (like I said above) "insinuates" that users of Opera will come to this blog and neccesarily will write "opposed points of view" and even "off-topic comments", why do you think that this situation "neccesarily" will happen with opera users that post in this blog?????
Note, that I´m not relationating off-topic with opposed comments else that I´m relationating off-topic AND opposed comments coming from opera users.
How Have I act rude or I insulted to someone? Show me or quote the words or phrases that prove your accusations again me.
If you says it for these words: "I don´t call you jerk in anymoment only yourself did it" (reffering to Asa), if you read well the posts you would find that Asa is being sarcastic and that I didn´t insult him else I reffered to sarcasm that he used above.
This explain more clear my statements, I hope that you understand it.
And what if I post in some blogs, the blogs are there for being commented else won´t being blogs, don´t you think so?
If saying "erasing comments is censorship" is rude then you comprehend wrongly the meaning of the things.

Coming back to the discussion, I think it should ask to register to the users that want to comment in the blog for (at least) dissuading a little to anonymouses that want post quick inflammatory comments or want to sabotage the discussion, and if the registered user posts unsense comments then the user can be warned about his conduct and that will be banned if the user keeps his conduct.

Wait, so accusing someone of censorship with no basis isn't rude or insulting?

And responding to an Opera fan's concerns about censorship with Opera-related examples is an attack on Opera, or at least on Opera fans?

I'm trying to realign my brain to figure this out, but it's just not working.

Dear el_esponjoso, Kelson, asa,

I really enjoyed this conversation. :)

As far as I understand, Asa wants coherence in his blog's comments, el_esponjoso wants to be sure that only off-topic comments will be deleted and not opposing viewpoints, and Kelson wants clarify things.

As far as I see, all of you three disagree on the form but agree with each other on the content. Asa is comfortable with opposing viewpoints, el_esponjoso is on-topic and is willing to remain so, and Kelson is willing these needs to keep satisfied. All of these appearingly-contradictory comments seem to follow the same direction.

Some explicit questions are not even answered. Appearingly, with some empathy from all, this conversation would be as peaceful in the form as in the content. I found this very funny :)

What do you think ?

Best of all,

Jean-Pierre