Asa Dotzler: Firefox and more

Having no number pad would make it difficult to play Tontie...

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/pfuca-store/haphackeylit1.html

You could just take your current keyboard out to the shed and make a few "modifications" ;)

I'm pretty partial to the Kinesis ergonomic keyboard. ;-)

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/details/DE/DE,CRID=2158,CONTENTID=9874

I used to use HHK Lite, mentioned above. Now I use HHK, which is compltely different from HHK Lite, not only its price but also key-touch.
See http://www.pfu.fujitsu.com/en/hhkeyboard/

yea... i think having one of these is pretty cool, specialy if ure not a gamer, plenty of room and i think it's more elegant.

If you are looking for a seriously hardline ergonomic keyboard, I'll second the addiction to the Kinesis Contoured keyboard. It takes some getting used to, but it really pays off on the ergo. I had trouble using a knife and fork, carrying bags from the supermarket and stuff, that's how repetitively stressed out my fingers were. Without the Contoured keyboard, I wouldn't be working with computers at all. But if I did work with a regular keyboard, I would probably be looking at a rollermouse device. They work really great, completely eliminating that constant reaching for the mouse; and they let you keep the number pad.

Yeah, that's a problem that I've been thinking about too, lately. There is really no positioning of both mouse and keyboard which is optimal for both typing and using the mouse.

Why not just put the mouse in front of the keyboard? That way the distance from the keyboard to the mouse is very short and your shoulder/elbow is in a more natural position. This works the best with a wireless mouse since you don't have the fight the cord all the time.

Using regular mouse is a bit addictive but not ergo enough. To meet ergo criteria I think laptop keyboard with a touchpad at its wrist-rest region is perfect. You get "mouse" at your finger. Most today touchpads allow for both direction scrolling so you lose no function.

I second the reccomendation of the Happy Hacking Keyboard. I didn't buy it for its ergonomics, I bought it because it claimed to have proper clicky keys, but I'm quite satisfied with it in both respects.

Logitech's Nuvo (I believe) has a separate number pad but is very pricey, and Gyration also makes a nice wireless keyboard without number pad. Believe I saw it at Costco recently.

small, mobile and good costumer relations!
http://www.frogpad.com/information/general.asp?Ref=pheloxi
http://frogpad.zeroforum.com/

I've got a keyboard (wireless) with the number pad on the other side. It actually has come to annoy me, but I think that's the reason it's on the left instead of right. It's an A4 Tech wireless keyboard and mouse set. It's not super-ergonomic, though it's better than many standard keyboards.

We actually put the keyboard on a keyboard shelf under the desk, and the mouse above it. I use as many keyboard shortcuts as possible, anyways, though I still have to use the mouse for plenty of stuff.

that's the exact reason why I decided to move the mouse on the left side of the keyboard... Never regretted it since then! :-)

I've got a different problem - I'm using webpages with a lot of number-based forms so I tend to use both the numpad and mouse at the same time.
When I'm not doing that though I just use keyboard shortcuts. I've set the volume buttons to switch desktops and since I'm on linux I have one to open a console, which involves mashing the bottom row of keys.

http://www.pfu.fujitsu.com/en/hhkeyboard/whatsnew.html

My keyboard is too wide for my keyboard-shelf and my mouse simulantously, so instead of changing keyboard to one without number pad, I bought good optical mouse, set mouse sensitivity to maksimum, and all space my mouse now need is just 10 cm of keyboard-shelf space. My friend in similar situation bought trackball. But I'd never buy a keyboard without number pad, I think I'd rather resign using mouse althogether.

Kinesis -- http://www.kinesis-ergo.com

For those looking because of RSI, current or anticipated -- add a trackball, instead of a mouse.

After my carpal tunnel surgery failed to help -- I'll always drop things, not be able to use tools safely, or feel anything that's delicate or fragile with my fingers -- I learned a bit more about this stuff.

All the hand therapists I spoke to over some years agreed:

Don't use a mouse or trackball small enough to get your hand around. You don't want to curve your fingers and grip at all, once the damage has been started. (That's what the Kinesis Ergo keyboard also accomplishes, you straighten your fingers to reach the upper keys.)

A Logitech Trackman Marble (discontinued) is almost big enough, right hand only;

A Trackerball (www.trackerball.com, now a dead website,) is entirely big enough, 3-button, huge trackball, industrial-strength;

A Crayola Kids' Trackball (discontinued) is lightweight, 2-button, even larger trackball, and quite satisfactory (this one at least can still be found for sale if you search for a while; also called "Micro Innovations").

All those are big enough you can't grip them; the latter two are big enough your hand lies flat on top of them and you stretch your fingers to click the buttons.

----> If you start dropping little things like stamps or paperclips,
----> it's not age and it's not clumsiness, it's nerve damage.
----> My neurologist told me, tell that to everyone I know using a computer.
----> He sees far too many who've ignored the little symptoms or been
----> told, as I was, that it's 'just tendinitis' and have permanent damage.

Tough luck that FingerWorks doesn't exist anymore, but if you're able to get one of their TouchStream keyboards (http://www.fingerworks.com/lp_tech.html) from e-bay or something like that, go for it. With the touchstream, there is no need for a mouse, as the keyboard consists of two pressure-sensitive pads with letters printed on them. By typing normally, it works like a keyboard, but put two fingers and drag, and you have the mouse - plus there's a lot of other gestures. Imho one of the best solutions made - too bad they're not available anymore.

"A Logitech Trackman Marble (discontinued) is almost big enough, right hand only;"

The Trackman Marble isn't discontinued, they just redesigned it. Try getting the big white one off eBay, it's definitely the best trackball (imo). If that fails, the new gray design that they're selling in stores isn't bad, it just isn't as good either. I have one of each and prefer the white design.

http://www.linuxemporium.co.uk/products/hardware/#pid52841

Actually, all of those HH keyboards are ok if you're a fan of minimalism :)

Check this:
http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/input/72e2/zoom/

Maybe that keyboard can help you.

Hi Guy: You had a keyboard/mouse 'thing' going about 6 months ago. Let's assume we're talking desktop here. Laptop/PDA/Device - kb/mouse compromises - even the best - are totally 'mickey-mouse' for serious work. I'll comment again - I'm 6'2", broad and can 'kind-of' touch-type. I have one of those 'cheapie', L-shaped pressboard desks - 5' by 5' - and NO CENTER LEGS [NB] - kind of cantilevered. Has a slideout keyboard shelf/drawer with 'stops/indents' in the tracks to keep it from automoving in and out once pulled out and 'clicked' into the indent.
1 - Narrow keyboards are hard on the wrists - they don't allow them to bend properly - hence I bit the bullet, suppressed my normal 'anything but MS instincts' and bought an MS, wired, "Natural Multimedia Kb" for about $70 Can. [$60 US]. This kb is 'ergo' - 'V-split and contoured', has every 'quickie' key you could ever want and is built to last. Excellent KEY-FEEL too.
2 - Mouse - I didn't want to have to keep the desk 'clear' so I could slide the mouse around, plus I wanted the mouse down lower, level with the kb slideout that measures 3 1/2" below the desk top. Hence, I bit a 2nd bullet and spent $70 Can for a wired MS "Trackball Explorer - Optical" mouse - 4 button plus scroll/center click plus of course the big trackball. There are different trackball configurations - mine - and I'm happy with it, has the ball on top, my right thumb operates the left click, right click buttons and the scroll wheel/center click button all of which are on the 'left' side of the mouse. The remaining 2 buttons are on the right side and are 'default' set as back button and forward button, operated by my right ring and middle fingers. With a piece of 3 1/2" X 12" X 3/4" pressboard I L-bracket/installed a 'fixed' shelf, tilted up about 10 degrees for the mouse beside the keyboard. I use a piece of 'drawerliner' rubber mesh under the mouse to minimise 'roaming'.
Wires? - no problem, no batteries, no RF troubles - they're out of the way.
Complicated? - no, it quickly becomes instinctive [no-brainer?!], although you need to control 'wrong' zapping clicks from emotional anger 'twitches' - when reading about current politics/events or the 'got-ya' practices of certain websites/corporations! Really, if you start 'consciously' thinking about it, you're lost!
Obsessive? - With the thousands of hours spent on using this stuff, getting the 'ergo-config' right for 'YOU' with an hour or two of thought/installation/re-installation [if necessary] seems 'de minimus'.
With the software you can play any game you want with the 5 button functions.
Functionality - after a few hours you find your elbow on the chair armrest and wrist inactivity tends cause a bit of 'atrophy'? so a little periodic exercise is necessary'. Any troubles? If your index and middle fingertips on the ball get dry, they slip on the ball - dampen the fingertips - exercise too fixes this. Periodically, but not since I got really ruthless about cookies [thanx for your cookie management system - 650+ blocked][BTW - Fx 1.5B1 cookies mgt., so far, is NOT an improvement over dotX!!!] - 'something' gets into the trackball to cursor software 'path' and cursor movement is corrupted? to 'jerkyness' and/or outright non-responsiveness. Maybe 10 'events' over 8 months - not often but a total pain when it happens. Cookie control and re-boots, usually, but not always, immediately seemed to re-set things. Also Norton AV, Counterspy, Spysweeper, AdAware, SpyBot and last but best the fabulous ZoneAlarm freebie firewall keep me safe from all merde. - So far!
My apologies for the lenght but your 2nd post on the subject tells me you're 'bugged' by the kb/mouse conundrum so I'm just trying to 'help'.
Best to you and many thanx - Jim - maybe there's better but I'm not aware of it!? Someday there'll be mind control - a la Russia's "Firefox" fighter aircraft - the movie w/Clint Eastwood - ie. if AI ever becomes possible? - not too likely in the next 100 years though, from current effort/success!

I've thought about this exact same problem before; julien's suggestion of putting the mouse on the left side is good (and one I tried for a little bit), but I find that I prefer to use the mouse with my right. What I've thought about in the past that should work (though I couldn't bring myself to spend the $) would be to get a left-handed keyboard. That would make it fully symmetrical, while keeping the mouse on the right.

I can only recommend the HHKB. Those got a real good "feedback" (Druckpunkt?) and they're that heavy that they can fight a cat to death :) [The cat'll loose]

xeen
PS: no cat has been harmed during writing this post. at least not yet...

As alluded to by at least another commenter, I find many computer desks designed by non-computer users. How do I know? Tiny boxed-in space for the monitor, little room for the mouse, etc., etc.. And the expensive ones can be as bad as the cheap desks.

I alternate between two keyboards (because I am constantly scraping off the white letters on a black keys with my guitar-players nails, and have to re-draw them with white-out - hey, it works!): a stock Dell keyboard and a Logitech media keyboard.

The major ergonomic helper for me has not been a keyboard but rather a trackball mouse.

I have been using The Microsoft Trackball Explorer for coming up to 5 years now, and it has greatly reduced the repetitive stress issues I got thanks to work at the University. It is an optical mouse, USB, sits in one place right next to the keyboard and does not move (so no more moving the mouse about, let alone having space for that), has a BIG ol' trackball, and FOUR BIG (programmable) buttons, that make navigating forwards and backwards in FireFox, for example, a breeze (I rarely hit the Forward or Back buttons).

A technical person who saw it was very impressed and described it as "the perfect pointing device for the Internet."

Asa, I would spend some time playing in the trackball section of BestBuy (or your vendor of choice) before going for a newer keyboard. I tried a lot of different trackball-mice but this one felt "right" right away, hands down best of breed.

It cost about $70.00 new but the investment was clearly well worth it. Credit where credit is due: Microsoft has done a great job (for me) with its Trackball Explorer.

Lawrence
Ithaca, NY

Been using the Logitech DiNovo several times promoted up above - Bluetooth version 1.0. The 2.0 has more reach. It works for me as i've actually networked all my PC's and got a bluetooth printer. Can even contol my IPAQ with it. The bluetooth optical mouse goes into the hub at night to recharge batteries. Since software version upgrade to 1.2 never had a connectivity problem again. The number pad, separate, also functions as calculator and info screen when playing music with most common players that is. One stop, but pricy pricy. Had to handcarry it from Houston to Italy as its not to have here.....over to this spot for all the sales pitch: http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/details/DE/DE,CRID=2158,CONTENTID=9874

The English link....ich spreche nur ein bischen deutsch

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/details/IT/EN,CRID=2162,CONTENTID=9874

Maybe this?

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/details/CA/EN,CRID=2282,CONTENTID=6636

It is designed for a Playstation, but reportedly (*) it works pretty good on a PC too.

(*): http://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=292285&st=0

I'm also using a Touchstream, and hoping I don't have to fight off the eBay hordes if ever I have to replace it. Worth checking out; here's a review:

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1150463,00.asp

- Chris.

well i still stick with the MS ergo keyboard. its cheap and cheerful. i spill crap all over my keyboard all the time - every eight months i just replace it. for $30 its worth it, and i can tell a difference in the feel of a new keyboard. this is why i will never own a kinesis etc.

Well, I'm using that one daily, mostly for programming: BTC 9118 Desktop Keyboard http://www.btc.com.tw/english/2-7-06keyboard.htm. It's just perfect. Keys are slim like in laptop keyboards, but slightly larger.

The USP version is here: http://www.btc.com.tw/english/2-7-15keyboard_hub_mini.htm

Check also the new models: http://www.btc.com.tw/english/2-7-07keyboard.htm

I use one of these.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00008OQTI/

Expensive!

http://www.keytools.com/keyboards/goldtouch_keyboard.asp

Perhaps a beter source and maybe worth a look

http://www.keyovation.com/