I need a keyboard. Anyone got any recommendations? I've been typing a lot on my laptop for the last year or so and my wrists and forearms feel like someone ran over them with a truck. Advil was keeping it tollerable for a couple of months but doesn't seem to be doing a bit of good any more.
It's actually quite painful and I have little doubt that a big piece of it is typing on the laptop keyboard so I'm interested if any of you have had good experiences with particular keyboards helping bad wrists.
And, yes, I know that the best thing I can do is to type less :-)
They may make slightly suspect OSes, but the MS Natural Keyboard Pro helped my wrists. I can type noticably longer on my natural keyboard than a normal one without bits of my arms wanting to call it quits =)
The Kinesis Ergo. These things r0x0r. I could head out to wierd places, be gone for days, and be sure that no-one else had touched my computer because they couldn't figure out how to type on the thing.
http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/advantage.htm
It's also pretty useless to play computer games on them because of the way that the cups discourage one-handed typing. Believe it or not, I consider this to be an advantage...
That and RSIGuard, which has to be the most annoying piece of software on the earth... but it saves me from myself.
Hey Asa,
Some people like the Microsoft keyboard, but I loathe it. It makes you lean over and kind of embrace it. I've also heard from a lot of people who use it that it is buggy (surprise) and as a result doesn't last very long.
You should definitely get a keyboard with low-impact keys. You might cruise over to Fryes and check some out; if you hit a key and can fill the "hit" in your fingers, it's a high-impact keyboard. Those things are murder.
One thing I've found is that it helps sometimes to have the keyboard on your lap, which is a more natural position than having to reach up. At work I actually have my mouse on my keyboard tray so it's lower than it would be on the desk; that helps, too.
I wish I could suggest a real keyboard, but due to financial constraints I didn't look really hard for a low-impact keyboard because I didn't have $100 to blow on a keyboard.
I've been using a Microsoft Natural Keyboard Pro for several years and the only thing I can complain of is the sound it makes when I press the keys! :)
I'm having more wrist problems when using the mouse.
Speaking of which.. I was wondering the other day why notebooks do not have wireless bases built into them for wireless keyboards and mice. That seems like a pretty easy thing to do, yet I don't know of any notebooks with the base builtin. I can imagine this being especially useful for a mouse.
i have a cordless elite duo, by logitech (it's the one that you forever see in keyboard ads on amazon, etc. as being 'the best). i've had it for about 4 months, and i'm not sure i'd recommend it. it's beautiful to have a keyboard / mouse w/o wires, and the mouse has a wonderful feel, but when the batteries decide to die (which isn't very often), it yells at you on a daily basis until you replace them - i had this happen for a week and a half before the batteries actually died. also, it comes with spyware that you have to remove, and the url buttons on the keyboard don't work with moz (although i have to admit that i've had better things to do than try very hard to get them to work). hmm, but other than that it's good. i don't regret buying it, but it could definitely be better
The newer logitech keyboard are good, have great keys and wrist support, run down to your local computer store and trash their keyboards to find the type you like the best :)
My friend love the old IBM clicky keyboards. He buys them three at a time (to replace the ones he's spilled beer on).
Not a keyboard, but: My mom has bad carpal tunnel in both wrists. She's already had surgery in one wrist (which alleviated the pain) and once that wrist is back to normal she'll be scheduling her appointment for the other. Her Dr. is very well known and respected. He recommends that keyboarders where a brace at night to keep the wrist imobilized and to help ease some of the pressure on the nerve so that it's not as bad the next day.
A good keyboard is important, but you may want to check with your Dr. about other types of therapy. A computer programmer with no wrists isn't as useful, and if it hurts now think about how bad it'll be when you're older and you start to get achy and have arthritis. No fun.
A couple things...
First, I really, really love my Logitech Cordless Comfort keyboard and mouse. The MS ones are decent too, but I like the feel of the keys on the Logitech better. --> http://tinyurl.com/8yvm
Second, for when you're on Linux, use something like Dr. Wright (http://drwright.codefactory.se) to force you to take breaks, and never cheat on breaks. It's frustrating, but you'll make us all cry if you need to go into therapy and stop coding for a while!
Also, get a good chair and desk if you don't have one - one that helps work you into good posture - it makes a difference for your wrists.
Finally, see jwz's comments on this - he expresses it all better than I do, and has some more practical info as well --> http://www.jwz.org/gruntle/wrists.html
From that link:
"But one thing is for certain: Do not fuck around. If you are experiencing any kind of pain, get to a doctor and get it diagnosed."
I got to recommend the Logitech line of keyboards. I got one of those free Logitech Cordless Navigator Duo's (promotion back in december). it's great. I use it with my Thinkpad, and really find it to be something.
It's comforable, anc convient. You *can* get the web and email button to work with Mozilla. Making it perfect for Asa.
I ordered this one:
http://store.yahoo.com/pckeyboards/ibm101.html
to replace my 1988 IBM M-Keyboard.
Not only you could stun cattle with it, it's also very comfortable.
I'm using a Logitech Cordless Freedom Navigator set. It's comfortable enough, and the mouse *isn't* one of those "ergonomic" ones (great for those who can use the mouse with either hand)...
Also if you don't already use an external mouse, you might consider going with a trackball. When I'm working on my tiBook for a long time my hand cramps up from using the trackpad. I switched to a logitech trackball and no more cramps.
I'll second the recommendation for the pckeyboards IBM style. I've gone through a lot of keyboards, and after using one I won't even look at anything else.
On the issue of wrist pain, you've heard it already but it bears saying again: if it hurts, stop. You're only going to make things worse by continuing.
Something to consider: how many years did secretaries type on those big ol' Remington typewriters with no problems? How many generations of pianists have there been, the majority of whom have never had wrist problems? Both of these groups make basically the same movements you do at the keyboard, so why do so many computer types have problems?
There are two answers, and both of them have to do with how easy it is to press the keys. On an old typewriter or piano keyboard, it takes a fair amount of force to get a good clean keypress. As a result, you have to hold your hands above the keyboard with your wrists basically not bent (or bent slightly forward) and your fingers curved down toward the keys. If you do it any other way, you won't get good results.
Contrast that with a computer keyboard, where many people get in the habit of letting their wrists drift down so they're bent backwards and rest on something; even a stiff keyboard doesn't require so much force as to make that unworkable, so it happens a lot. It's also where the majority of the problems come from.
If your hands hurt from typing, it's because you're holding them wrong. The right keyboard can help, but nothing can overcome that basic problem. Get your hands up off the keyboard and keep them there, and you'll be amazed at how much better they'll feel after a while. Do note that if they're already sore it'll take some time for them to heal, so you won't notice anything radical overnight.
Another thing which can make a difference: despite the rather common belief to the contrary, fairly stiff keys on a keyboard are a good thing. They give your fingers (and the muscles which control them, which are the root of these problems) definite feedback with which to work. It tends to stop a lot of the kind of jerking movement in the fingers which can lead to problems.
You'll come across people who have used keyboards with stiff keys and have had problems which lessened or went away when they switched to a light touch keyboard, but everyone I've ever met who that's true of has held their hands incorrectly. If you type with your wrists down, any extra pressure you have to exert is going to cause problems, so a light touch keyboard can help. However, you're better off getting into the habit of holding your hands properly.
This is all opinion based on personal experience, btw; I'm not a human factors expert or anything. I am a musician, though, and when my wrists and hands started giving me problems it scared the hell out of me. I went looking for answers and the above is what I came up with. I switched to a keyboard with fairly stiff keys and bought a computer desk which puts the keyboard below my hands so I have to hold them up above and curve my fingers down just like you would at a piano, and after a couple of weeks the pain went away and never came back.
Thank you all for the great suggestions. I'm keyboard shopping now. I'm also working to type less and to type better. Hopefully things will improve.
--Asa