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June 06, 2005

it's not a renaming and it's not official

In case you ran across this report that the "Mozilla Suite aka Mozilla Application Suite aka Mozilla 1.x is changing name to SeaMonkey" I wanted to point out that it's inaccurate in several ways.

First, the Mozilla Suite, aka Mozilla Application Suite, aka Mozilla 1.x is _not_ being renamed. It will never be renamed. Those names will continue to describe the suite of applications maintained by the Mozilla Foundation on the Mozilla 1.7 branch. The latest release of this product is Mozilla 1.7.8 and is available from here. Maintenance releases will continue from this branch so expect to see a Mozilla 1.7.9, Mozilla 1.7.10, Mozilla 1.7.11, etc.

Second, there is a new project, organized by a new community group, to build and release a new suite (similar to the official Mozilla Application Suite which is now officially in maintenances mode). This new project will necessarily have a new name. That name is being worked on now and the current hope is to secure the name "Seamonkey" for this new project.

To repeat, The Mozilla Application Suite is in maintenances mode on the 1.7 branch and will retain it's name(s) for as long as we continue to support it (years.) There is a new project with the goal of building a new application suite from the trunk. This project is not Mozilla 1.x (the Mozilla Application Suite, or the Mozilla Suite). This project is searching for a new name and hopes to secure the name "Seamonkey".

If and when this new project does do a release, it will probably be called Seamonkey 1.0. It will not be the Mozilla Foundation supported upgrade path for Mozilla 1.x users. Those users are encouraged to migrate to Firefox and Thunderbird or continue to use the security maintenances releases of Mozilla 1.x. Again, this is a new project and it will necessarily have a new name. It is not the renaming of an old project.

Oh, and third, the new name hasn't been finalized either :-)

Any questions?

Posted by asa at June 6, 2005 04:10 PM

yeah, just two questions. what is this Seamonkey thing i keep reading about? and it is the new name for the Mozilla Suite?

Posted by: testboy on June 6, 2005 04:43 PM

Since the Mozilla Suite has always been called seamonkey and since there has been a 1.0 of the Mozilla Suite, does this mean that you are re-releasing that for ole times sake? or have you just invented time travel?

Posted by: AndersH on June 6, 2005 07:06 PM

I have a question:
Why are there Mozilla 1.8 flags and builds in Bugzilla if no such thing exists? For example, there is a Target of mozilla1.8alpha6.

And since Firefox 1.1 and Mozilla 1.8 share code, how do you track the new project and 1.8 in the same system?

Posted by: alanjstr on June 6, 2005 07:33 PM

thank god its not called seamonkey! seamonkey is a really bad name... :|

Posted by: angie on June 6, 2005 07:43 PM

alan, Mozilla 1.8 refers to the Mozilla platform and Gecko user agent. Firefox 1.1 and Thunderbird 1.1 (and XUL Runner) will be based on the Mozilla core technologies 1.8 branch.

This new community supported project to build a suite of applications based on more current Mozilla technologies than the 1.7 branch requires a new name because it is not a direct continuation of the Mozilla 1.7.x releases. The 1.7.x Mozilla Application Suite will continue to be maintained and released as an official Mozilla product releases. This new community project will not be official and will not be the defacto upgrade path for Mozilla 1.7.x users.

The community leading this new project requested the name "Seamonkey" and we're working to accommodate that.

- A

Posted by: Asa Dotzler on June 6, 2005 07:44 PM

"This new community project will not be official and will not be the defacto upgrade path for Mozilla 1.7.x users."

However, anyone who _isn't_ part of the Mozilla Foundation _will_ heartily recommend any and all current Mozilla users (as well as those Firefox users who want more than just the basics in a browser) to upgrade to this new community project once it has a final release (aka SeaMonkey 1.0), as it _is_ the direct successor of the same codebase, being built using the Mozilla 1.8 sourcecode.

(Am I saying that accurately Asa? Not breaking any trademarks?)

Posted by: Sander on June 6, 2005 08:14 PM

Sander, you're free to make that assumption. I don't agree that that's what _will_ happen. It's certainly a possibility but we'll have to wait and see.

The installed base for Mozilla 1.7.x is rapidly shrinking and we're still a fairly long way off from a possible Seamonkey 1.0. In the mean time, Mozilla 1.7.x users are following the preferred migration path to Firefox and Thunderbird or making plans to do so.

I expect the situation will be a lot more like it is for Camino where some will advocate it and there will certainly be a number of people who want it but I don't think that it will ever have the success that Mozilla 1.x had (and even that is only a tiny fraction of the success that Firefox and Thunderbird have had.)

I'm not saying that it's not worth continuing. I fully support and appreciate the efforts that Mike and others put into Camino and think that's a project worth continuing. I'll lend what support I can to the Seamonkey High Council. You can ask any of them and they'll most likely tell you that I'm one of their biggest advocates.

- A

Posted by: Asa Dotzler on June 6, 2005 09:20 PM

If the reason that it has to have a new name, is that the name "Mozilla" is owned by Mozilla, isn't the same true for the name "SeaMonkey"?

Posted by: Pim on June 7, 2005 04:40 AM

Asa, I am going to 100% disagree with you. The application suite is shrinking because of two reasons. One is so many people who used the application suite in the past wanted a browser other the so called worlds prominent browser because it comes with the OS. They really didn't need a suite. I thought that was the whole idea of Firefox. A standalone, quick browser for people tired of the other guys out of date swiss cheese browser. Second off the people who be have left the application suite rot. The foundation through everything behind Firefox and have done nothing as far as major new features or UI changes to the suite. People are goofy that way, they like to see things different when they see a name or number change, that something is different. I am a nobody as far as programing goes. I am a disabled auto technician who hobby since early eighties has been computers and amateur radio. I seen over the years car manufactures change the sheet metal and slap on a new name plate, even though the frame, suspension and drive train is the same as the old model and increased sales because people think its new even though it is the same under the hood. You really look at it the UI of the suite is not much different from the old Netscape 4x suite.

From my prospective from my little corner of the world and family, friends, and neighbors that I have either built or help keep there computers going have been happy with Firefox but have had no interest in wanting Thunderbird because they purchased or came with a bundle the other guys office program with Outlook with everything right there as far as a PIM goes. You claim that the suite is going to be just for a small niche group. Well so is going to be standalone e-mail, calender, web development that Mozilla is working on and pushing because of all the alternatives out there both proprietary and open source. Like I posted in the past choice is good. But by some post by some people about the application suite and towards those in the community who want to keep working and finally by the sounds of it really adding new features and changes to the UI it should be named Blacksheep. Because it comes across that a lot of people feel the suite is the black-sheep in the Mozilla family.

Posted by: William Byron Jr. on June 7, 2005 07:58 AM

Agree with William "Blacksheep" sounds more appropriate. I've used the suite now for years and prefer it. My email's there and have added some of the add-ons to play with like calendar,etc. And... I like Composer! Sure it's a bit clunky sometimes and szchoid in it's behavior occasionally. But it's pretty easy to use and pretty well does what I need. I'm tired of having to relearn everything virtually from scratch each time a new release is set loose so I tend to stick with what is working for me. Same goes for the whole suite. Just wished the bugs and flakes that were already there were being worked on. Don't care much for a bunch of extra bells and whistles that just get in the way. Don't need a big change all the time. Don't waste time on the sheet metal. Just make it work better... under the hood.

I think I understand about the desire to put everything into Firefox, etc. but am certainly disappointed that the very thing that allowed them to move into and develop Firefox was tossed aside like an old shoe. The old shoe that worked.

I've tried Firefox and think it is o.k. but see nothing so compelling within it to switch myself. Afterall, it's just a browser. Haha. With the suite I have 99% of all I need to work on the net whether it be browsing, email, creating/updating web pages, etc. I wonder if there aren't more people using the suite than the Mozilla crew realizes.

But overall... Thank You Mozilla Crew!!! Thank You! ...for the suite we have.

If I have to learn to swim I might. Just hope the monkey's of the sea don't get caught up in trying be cute and just deliver a more solid, reliable, secure suite.

Posted by: mC on June 7, 2005 04:19 PM

mC, I 100% agree with your post. I feel there is a lot of others that like having one application open with all you need right there. I not looking for cute either. I just wonder why they never bothered with a RSS built in or sanitizer or SVG. If the suite and Firefox built on the same Gecko engine why have they not been added to the suite? Like I said I was a auto technician not a programer. But lets use the engine term. Why is the one getting better exhust, induction and a turbo why the other is not? It looks to me it like you said it is being tossed aside. Like I said give people choices. Build in a calander and good working relationship with OpenOffice with good promoting and who knows might take some people away from the other guys all in one.

Posted by: William Byron Jr on June 7, 2005 06:54 PM

William: The bug for an RSS reader in SeaMonkey - bug 255834 - is waiting for superreview from david bienvenu who is waiting for word from mscott if he is okay with it reutilizing the same code that thunderbird uses. Meanwhile the bug for SVG in SeaMonkey - bug 294182 - is getting attention as well. (It depends on the machines for creating the builds actually having the options set for doing so.) These things aren't being ignored, they just take some time and effort, and resources are limited, especially now that the community behind SeaMonkey has to do pretty much everything themselves.

Still, I'd expect/hope both to be done/working before SeaMonkey 1.0 final.

Posted by: Sander on June 7, 2005 10:59 PM

> Mozilla 1.8 refers to the Mozilla platform and Gecko user agent

This is where things begin to get blurry for me since I don't quite understand where one stops and the next one starts.

I mean, will you delete the mailnews folder from trunk's CVS? Will Seamonkey use the same bugzilla, lxr, etc? Will tinderboxes be transitioned to other things?

Posted by: alanjstr on June 11, 2005 03:01 PM

The SeaMonkey project will use the same CVS, Bugzilla, lxr, tinderboxen, etc. as current suite trunk is using. Actually, the suite trunk will be renamed to the new name, and current trunk is already more or less under the project's control (talking about the suite-specific code, of course - shared stuff is a different story). We probably will have a different FTP directory for the builds though (including nightlies, I still have to talk to a few people to clear those things up).
The 1.7 branch stays completely under Mozilla Foundation control though, as the last stable releases of Mozilla suite.
We're currently clearing up the last things to get official with the name and project, I hope much stuff will clear up then.

Posted by: Robert Kaiser on June 12, 2005 04:39 AM

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