September 07, 2004
default toolbar config
Today I spent a couple of hours using IE with the default toolbar config and it felt pretty nice. The Firefox toolbar configuration feels a bit crampted to me so I did some rearranging.
What does your default look like? Is the current default good enough for 1.0? Should we make changes?
Posted by asa at September 7, 2004 09:37 PMI like as much space for the page, and as little as possible taken by the application, so I'd have as few buttons as possible. Print, mail, bookmarks wouldn't be in the default arrangement, I might even take out "stop" and make "home" appear in the bookmarks tool bar. I'd also use small icons. That should make things less cramped!
Then I'd make sure that configuring the toolbars was something that it didn't take long to work out how to do.
I remember a notblog sometime ago that all many surfers use is a back button.
I really wouldn't use the buttons from 'Bookmarks' over -- I tend to hit the menus for those seldom-used functions. I really prefer the tight row of buttons (foward, back, reload, stop and home) with the location and search taking up the remaining space. Too many toolbar rows (buttons, location bar, /then/ tabs) take up too much page real estate for me.
It'd be really interesting to have a button drop-down that has those other features but that also remembers which gets used most often and so shows up as the default. Probably not by 1.0 though... Perhaps I should learn how to make extensions...
Cheers! ~ Kevin
Posted by: KevinFreitas on September 7, 2004 10:20 PMIs the current default good enough for 1.0?
Yes.
Should we make changes?
No!
Changing will only confuse existing users. Firefox lists maximized web page area as one of its features. Also the Firefox window in your screenshot is not maximized, giving the illusion of need for more toolbar space while most user run their browser maximized and run resolution of at least 800x600 and many more at 1024x768. Personally I like to get as much space for web content as possible. Here's a screenshot of my setup with window dimensions near those of its maximized state (1024x768):
http://home.comcast.net/~berkut7/images/fx.png
I don't like it, not it's too spacy. One of the Firefox PR slogans is that Firefox provides more space for browsing, than Internet Explorer - plus the above is taking fixing "crampted" to the extreme.
Posted by: Tom Sommer on September 7, 2004 10:29 PMIMO Firefox really needs 'increase' and 'decrease' text size toolbar buttons. Sure there are menu items but there should be buttons i can just move into the toolbar, like every other browser i've used.... (sure there is probably an extension to do it, but this seems like something it should come with - a button for each menu item)
Posted by: Ben Hines on September 7, 2004 10:38 PMForward, back, refresh, stop, home, address bar, and search bar as small icons is all you need. With that you can fit the everything on one line. Why have the other options when you can reach them in a menu with a flick of the wrist? Most people don't even use the buttons.
Posted by: LMTYSB on September 7, 2004 11:04 PMIt doesn't feel that way to me. I use small icons too. As others have said - I want as much of my screen as possible to be used for displaying the pages. I don't want toolbars to fill more than they do now.
Posted by: Joergen Ramskov on September 7, 2004 11:11 PMOne thing I did always like about IE's default toolbar config was the option for 'Selective Text on Right'... Its a rather happy medium, I belive, to the arguments of more breathing room vs. little space taken up. Also, it addresses the above comment that 'most ppl only use the back button' - the back button is given prominence among other lesser used functions. I dont know if I would like the toolbars to take up as much space as put forward in this illustration (reminds me of Win98) - but something similar to selective text would be nice IMHO.
Posted by: John on September 7, 2004 11:13 PMI prefer screen space!
http://matzon.dk/mozilla.png
I'm pretty happy with the default layout, although I do usually hide the Home button as I don't use it that much.
Posted by: Neil T. on September 7, 2004 11:35 PMI believe for the people using IE, the "Go" button would be a handy addition. I've had people ask me that before who have converted to firefox... It's reassuring to have a "go" button...
Just my opinion...
Posted by: AdamJ. on September 7, 2004 11:56 PMInclude the downloads button next to the bookmarks button, display the bookmarks toolbar and drag the new tab button to the left side of this.
I actually use the go button from time to time. Its indespensable when just using the mouse (select & copy url, paste, go). Just like the still absent search button that imho should be next to the search field. I use an extension now, but there should be a button included by default.
You should also add the "new tab" and "go" buttons. One of the main features of Firefox is tabbed browsing, so having the "new tab" button will introduce newbies to that feature. The "go" button is for people who are used to that in IE.
Posted by: Prabakar Sampath on September 8, 2004 12:32 AMI am a freak for minimizing horizontal "wasted" space so I find the space after the menu bar a real waste!!!
I have the menu bar containing the regular menues plus everything else I need on one sigle row.
Sorry but I have no screenshot, I will try to explain my layout.
File Edit View Go Bookmarks Tools Help | [rewind] [back] [forward] [fast forward] [stop/reload] [ URL bar ........] [go] [throbber]
The navigation toolbar is always hidden.
the bookmark toolbar contains the following
[History] [bookmarks] | [Work Folder] [Misc folder] [/.] [webmail] .... [bokmarklets]
That i,s after the first two icons I have a couple of folders containing the bookmarks i often use , then the bookmarks that I access several times a day, (thanks to VLAD's patch I only have icons here so thay really take no spaces at all.) Finally I have a couple of bookmarklets I use all the time.
The smallest I cons are used.
The spaces is manually ajusted in the browser.css file to minimize lost space.
"I prefer screen space!
http://matzon.dk/mozilla.png"
Hah, mine are identical to that one, except that I have the Google Search instead of the Go button (that one is disabled), and the Bookmark Toolbar under the toolbar buttons.
Posted by: Jugalator on September 8, 2004 12:45 AMIt needs to be as close to IE's default as possible. I think the "Go" button is a good idea. And same as the add tab.
Because the interface people are familiar with, is IE's. They shouldn't need to be retrained to use a new web browser.
A lot of us "hardened" users don't even realise what is confusing to the newbie/non computer user because to us, setting up the toolbar to how we want it is amazingly trivial.
I'd love to see a tool tip in the address bar "Type an address here to go there." and one in the google search "Tell google what you are looking for." - or something along those lines anyway!
Posted by: Anko on September 8, 2004 12:48 AMThe current setup is good, and shouldn't be drastically changed.
The only thing I'd change to match Internet Explorer is the order of Stop and Refresh. In saying that, I haven't done an install with a fresh profile in a while; does Firefox still put Refresh before Stop?
Posted by: Marcus on September 8, 2004 01:07 AMYes, it should be as close to IE's layout as possible. At the very least, the "Go!" button should be included per default. That was the first thing my mother asked for after having installed Firefox, "How do I go to pages if there's no Go button?". A "New Tab" button would probably be good too, but not essential as IE users are not used to it.
I always aim to get as much screen space available for browsing as possible. As posted by a previous commentor, I push my navigation stuff up into the menubar, only moving the menubar to the right of the screen. What really bothers me is the status bar. Personally, I like Apple's approach in Safari for combing the reload and stop buttons and showing the progress meter across the location bar. Another browser (was it Omniweb?) showed link destinations in the location bar when you moused over them. Marvelous! In my little dream world, I have two monitors and one displays the page, while the controls are on another. AH screen real estate.
Posted by: Hank Mills on September 8, 2004 01:26 AMI like the default layout, it's very efficient space-wise. It could be even better if reload and stop were the same button ala Opera.
As for making it like IE, why copy IE's crappy defaults when it can be done so much better? Users want something better than IE, not a boring clone.
Posted by: Luke Shingles on September 8, 2004 01:33 AMOur icons are much bigger than the IE ones - is there a real need to take up so much vertical space with them?
Posted by: Gerv on September 8, 2004 01:58 AMI always add "add new tab" and "go" to the default bar when I use a fresh profile.
Posted by: Rob... on September 8, 2004 02:05 AMWell, this is my default toolbar config:
http://home.hccnet.nl/m.wargers/test/mozilla/browser.png
Normally I don't have the Home button visible, by the way (no idead why I have it now).
I have large buttons with text under it, so it is easy to click on.
I have the "Go" button and the "Search" button visible, because I can click with the mouse instead of having to press enter (I paste most of the time an url or text in the url bar or search bar).
The toolbar bookmark items, that's just a geek thing ;).
I definitely would like it if the default look would be the same as mine :) (well, I can hope :) )
The one true way: ;)
layout1.png
layout2.png
Result of some userchrome.css tweaking and also Bookmarks accesskey changed from B to A (way more handy IMHO).
Posted by: Tar on September 8, 2004 03:10 AMBill, that bug has been fixed in recent nightlies!
As for the proposed screen layout people who say we shouldn't blindly copy IE are right, people won't use it if it seems exactly the same (people want better). I like the current toolbar layout but I wouldn't object if they switched the reload/stop icons in line with IE.
However, if it was considered to move the location/search bar to their own toolbar the following things need to be done to make it user friendly:
1. Implement an IE style selected text on right preference
2. Add labels to the location bar and search bar (the location bar looks weird when it's touching the left of the screen without a text label, it'd also make it easier for new users to understand what the two text boxes were for).
Location: [ ] Search: [G ]
However adding the text labels make things bad for those who are after the current look.
In the end I'd say at the moment, don't dramatically depart from the layout that has got Firefox some excellent reviews.
Someone could easily offer a browser that's based on Firefox but defaults to a more IE like look and toolbar layout - that's the beauty of open source.
Posted by: Dave on September 8, 2004 03:16 AMHere's my preferred 'easy-to-use' Opera toolbar layout, compared with Asa's Firefox and my MSIE setup:
http://people.opera.com/rijk/tmp/OperaKISS-FirefoxASA-MSIE.jpg
I agree with most of the comments: the current Firefox toolbars are fine, a Go button would probably make it more usable, and MSIE's addition of text to the most important buttons is a good idea.
"I'd love to see a tool tip in the address bar "Type an address here to go there." and one in the google search "Tell google what you are looking for." - or something along those lines anyway!"
This gave me a great idea (IMHO, hehe)!
How about not using tips, but this behavior:
http://www.codeproject.com/editctrl/promptedit.asp
It's used in a few applications I've seen. You could have a text "Type and address here to go there." in, say, light gray if the address field was empty.
Posted by: Jugalator on September 8, 2004 03:36 AMAlthough it's a bit offtopic, I think firefox needs to show the tabbar by default, so that new users can easily notice that firefox has tab browsing, and that using it is a good idea :)
Posted by: oxyd on September 8, 2004 03:47 AMOh, about the go button, there is some complaining about it not being shown by default:
http://kalsey.com/2004/09/why_i_dont_recommend_firefox/
please stop moving defaults behaviours, settings, UI to imitate internet explorer ... there are _reasons_ why people wanted/wants to move away from i.e., one of them happens to be UI space...
why don't you simply offer to the user, when installing firefox, something like this
(one page in the installation process)
"Firefox has a highly customizable UI, right click on the tool bar and explore the customize function.
Before exploring this feature, what would suit you the best at first:"
(x) Firefox default UI
( ) Internet Explorer Style UI
( ) Opera (without the banners) Style UI
( ) Blablbla
I don't see it has a bad thing to try to make it easier for internet explorer users to have a nice transition, I just have a hard time accepting it when this goes against some fundamental reasons why we (the firefox users of 6 month, one year, ...) switched a while ago...
Posted by: Mathieu Pellerin on September 8, 2004 04:03 AMMy FF just have back, reload and sage as buttons. These buttons are small and icon only so I can use as much space as possible to view the webpages (I'm on 1024*768 resolution at my laptop=()
Posted by: brother on September 8, 2004 04:04 AMI prefer only Back, Forward, Reload & New Tab. No text, large icons. I never really understood having the Home button as a default, but I guess that's because I never use it!
I agree that it's nothing that needs to be changed for 1.0.
--Nick
My Toolbar :
Back Forward Refresh Stop Home [Url] [Search]
With small icons and Without Text. No Bookmarks toolbar.
Should be enought for most users. All users I know use this kind of configuration... Almost with Text under icon.
Ok, here's 'my' toolbar:
1st line: Menu only
2nd line: Back, Fwd, Home, Reload, Stop, ---URL bar---, Download button, Throbber.
3rd line: Personal toolbar.
Toolbar is with big icons and no text.
For a fresh install, I would suggest big icons and text, for beginners its always a lot of guessing what these coloful icons actually mean. And for the button set, dont use too much. Back, Fwd, Home, Reload, Stop should be enough. And dont put the throbber into the menu line.
The "History" icon in this toolbar looks too much like the Mercedes Benz logo.
Posted by: Paul Berendsen on September 8, 2004 06:06 AMI do hide the Home button as I don't use it that much and I prefer small icons. Why remove one of key features - big space for websites?
Posted by: Petr Tomeš on September 8, 2004 07:00 AMI'm in the minimalistic camp as well. I just have the Gmail notifier, url box, search box. But I've seem many confused relatives and friends so I think this is quite unusual. I think that quiick install should be IE like, but I'd really welcome a custom install option with 'IE like', 'Opera like', 'Minimal', etc. options like Mathieu suggested.
Posted by: tekumse on September 8, 2004 07:09 AMperfect for me ...
Posted by: kwanbis on September 8, 2004 07:26 AMAs an end user with no computer knowledge, I would expect, bookmark, history, new tab, new window, download and mail buttons to be in the toolbar by default like back, forward, stop, reload. You can't expect a non-techie to go customize and drag those buttons.
I think that a button for New Tab should be part of the default configuration. I realize that the goal is to make Firefox as accessible (and not confusing) as possible, but tabs are one of Firefox's killer features. The button should be there in the name of discoverability, no?
Posted by: Jonathan Dobres on September 8, 2004 07:48 AMMy toolbar looks like the current Firefox default, with the addition of a print button. Personally I like the default as it is, but I wonder if some extra spacers and buttons on there wouldn't be good for IE users that don't know how to add a button and will end up hunting on menus and having a harder time with Firefox...
For anyone that may have missed it, there was a forum thread on a similar topic:
http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=98232 . Some people have some really whacky stuff.
tekumse, right, "Minimal UI" would be a nice option too, like back,foward,refresh,stop,url, that's all ...
Posted by: Mathieu Pellerin on September 8, 2004 08:27 AMButtons' labels definitely need to be shown by default. Also, I'd stick a spacer to the left of Back, to balance the whitespace a bit more.
Posted by: Greg K Nicholson on September 8, 2004 08:41 AMTo paraphrase my post to djst's blog...
For the record, I have unreviewed patches for both the "selective text on right" and "label address and search fields" issues. Although I really like his idea of, rather than labeling the search field, putting "Enter search terms here" greyed out in the search box, ala Thunderbird's new search bar. Selective text seemed to have generic problems mconnor never really described to me, but I'd be happy to fix them or see someone else roll a better patch :). See: bug 215838 and and bug 171245.
Posted by: Jon Henry on September 8, 2004 08:45 AMI posted my comment on David's post, but one other thing I like about IE, is I can move the tool bars around and even have multiple on the same line. I would love to see that functionality in Firefox...
Posted by: Mike Wills on September 8, 2004 09:47 AMIt's fine as it is however I think having the mail and print buttons between the location and search bar would be very advantageous.
Posted by: Peter Hewitt on September 8, 2004 09:53 AMCan you still say you have X % more avaliable space than IE in the default config?
Posted by: Ernst Persson on September 8, 2004 10:17 AMMy suggested toolbar thinking on IE switchers and my mother-in-law:
http://nostalsong.com/images/mytoolbar.jpg
new tab, for the usual reasons: if it's a main driver it should be exposed by default (even more considering the tab bar is hidden by default, I would display it instead)
back, forward, refresh, stop
Home button: here I am not sure. I don't use it and don;t know people who does, so...
Download button: the reason is because it's one of the most difficult instructions to provide to a grandma: how to find where she saved her grandson pics. And for me it's at burden at least to have to browse for it, so... a good time saver.
History: not very frequently used and easily reachable (two clicks) via Go/History. Would not include.
Bookmarks: If bookmarks where in the Go menu I would have no doubt about this. Anyway I would not include it.
e-mail: only if thunderbird is present AND if additional functionality is provided because of their integration (which doesn't exist at present). Besides that, the button is as handy as clicking on you e-mail app, and will confise for webmail-only users (unless you: bundle webmail compose extension, ask for a supported webmail service, enable the extension and set it accoriingly). I believe all other browser/e-mail integration is provided by the OS via "mailto:".
print: if no default printer, no reason for this, otherwise yes.
As David Tenser suggests, I would include Address and Search labels before the textboxes, and also the Go button for copy/pasting/clicking urls.
Also, when importing IE config, what about aking for import of IE toolbar layout. Then do it so, plus "new tab" and "download" which obviously wouldn't be in IE.
Posted by: Percy Cabello on September 8, 2004 10:24 AMI can't remember the default, but I bet mine's close:
Back, Forward, Reload, Stop, (separator), Home, (separator), Print, Location bar, Search bar, New Tab.
Winstripe's large icons are small enough. The small icons look like tiny specks.
It sure would be nice if the right-most button was accessible from the screen edge; the left-most button works from the left screen edge. Maybe I'll file a bug (if it hasn't been already).
Posted by: Greg on September 8, 2004 11:33 AMI've been trialing out Firefox on my parents computers recently, and watching my mother using Firefox the other day, I said "click the Back button". With the default Firefox layout, that left her a bit confused - she's quite adept at finding her way around the web in IE, but without the text labels to assure her that it was the back button, was reluctant as to which button to press.
While I love the default layout from an advanced users point of view, I think the text labels are beneficial for novice users. I've noticed that novice users are particularly fearful of doing anything unknown on a computer because of a deep down fear of breaking something.
My father's hooked on Firefox -- he's far more confident with computers than my mother, but even still, features like tabbed browsing are something he's not even aware of at this point. But he's happy clicking away on buttons without any text labels.
The Icons+Text view has always struck me as looking rather unpolished and very unbalanced - the spacing on the icons is all wrong. Compare it with Internet Explorer, which appears to do a couple of things that makes for a more polished look and feel:
* When showing text labels, additional space is placed before the left-most button so that the button is not jammed up against the edge of the window
* The buttons appear to be all sized the same (ignoring the extra width that the drop-downs on back/forward add). This makes a _huge_ difference compared with Firefox, where the buttons appear to be sized based on the width of the text.
There are two approaches I can think of to the toolbar:
1/ Default to text+icons and let users find Customise to change this
2/ During the initial import/profile creation, have a selection choosing between the 'basic' layout, and the 'advanced' view. Have a screenshot that changes when the user clicks the radio button to show them quickly what the differences are.
A somewhat technically inclined user can make changes; a lot of "Joe Bloggs" out there will never open the Options dialog (or Customise).
Just my 2c.
Posted by: Antony Mawer on September 8, 2004 11:38 AMI think this is an important step in right direction. I've been using mozilla for 3 years now, and while I prefer the current state of the toolbar config, I do think the more expanded layout would be easier for new users. I think the 'IE style' layout should be the default. I would quickly customize it back to how I like it, and that's one of the many great things about this browser, it's really customizable.
Posted by: Steve Sizemore on September 8, 2004 12:53 PM
Asa, could you change the color of hovered links on the sidebar? Not seeing them while hovered is annoying...
.side2 a:hover {color: #008CC5;}
That gives it a lighter color, I think it's better...
Posted by: Markus Lindström on September 8, 2004 01:35 PMOops! Made a mistake, I just copied what's currently in there.
.side2 a:hover {color: #009EDE;}
All better! :-D
Posted by: Markus Lindström on September 8, 2004 01:38 PMWell, I have a ultracompact layout that I use which leverages Compact Menu. It looks like this. Probably not for everyone, but it maximizes my real estate and gets rid of a bunch of things that I don't use (between keyboard shortcuts and mouse gestures).
I could probably even get rid of the standard navigation buttons (rocker gestures, F5, and Escape for forward/back, refresh, and stop). I may just try that...
Posted by: Patrick O'Leary on September 8, 2004 01:43 PMI cram everything into the menu bar:
File Edit View Go Bookmarks Tools Help [<-] [->] [-<-] [X] [Google] [URL]
No throbber, no bookmarks. I do have the status bar enabled.
I think the Back button is way too close to the left border. It looks as though it's less wide than the other ones.
Personally, I have the menubar with the throbber on the right, and the Navigation toolbar with Back, Forward, Reload and Stop (I use Alt-Home to go home, force of habit), all large and without text labels, then the Location bar, then the Google bar. And the status bar at the bottom, of course.
Posted by: [ct] on September 8, 2004 02:48 PMWhat I like most about Firefox is that it helps me get the information I need, without being intrusive in design or functionality. So I prefer a minimalist default, with lots of options for personal customization. I have 20+ links in my bookmarks toolbar folder and spend most of my time there during the day.
BTW, the mark of a good brand is that it puts "the customer inside the product." That is what this forum is doing, and what Firefox does by design. Sooooo much better than IE.
Posted by: Brian on September 8, 2004 04:29 PMMaybe I would put everything on the first row if it didn't disappear completely on F11 (IE-autohide feature?).
Posted by: Blimundus on September 8, 2004 04:48 PMSince everyone else is doing it, here is my Firefox layout:
http://gushue.net/firefoxlayout.png
I don't know why more people don't put their bookmarks toolbar on the menu bar - normally that's a lot of space wasted (plus, I removed some of the menu items via userChrome.css). I don't know why I have the Home button there, I never click on it.
Posted by: Chris Gushue on September 8, 2004 05:56 PMI introduced my father to Phoenix long ago and put the new tab button on the toolbar for him. Later on with all the changes I had to create a new profile for him and since he had been using tabs for so long the obvious question came back - "why isn't this button on by default?". So, why isn't it, since tabs are a major Firefox-over-IE feature? Right now tabs are actually quite difficult to discover since no meaningful mention is made of them in Options (er, Preferences), no button on the toolbar, tab bar is hidden by default and Ctrl+Left-clicking or Middle-clicking on links is not an activity that people are accustomed to doing.
Posted by: David P James on September 8, 2004 06:03 PMQUOTE: "I don't know why more people don't put their bookmarks toolbar on the menu bar - normally that's a lot of space wasted."
I agree about the wasted space, but I also value the bit of extra space I get if my bookmarks toolbar has its own row. That way, I can fit a few more and avoid having to use the chevrons. Maybe I have too many personal bookmarks. :-)
Still, thanks to your mention, mabe I'll try it for a bit and see how I like it. I can probably shorten some bookmarks' names or move other less-frequently-used ones to folders. But I don't think there are any menus I'm comfortable hiding, except perhaps Help.
QUOTE: "I don't know why I have the Home button there, I never click on it."
That I can agree with; I've removed mine from the toolbar, since I prefer mine a blank page. (Maybe it's because I'm on dial-up.) But even if my start page were blank, having a different home page doesn't make sense to me--then it's just like a bookmark. (Someone creative could make the throbber a special bookmark, too, I suppose.)
Posted by: Robert Morris on September 8, 2004 07:31 PMI typically leave the toolbars at their defaults (save the "personal toolbar" which I usually get rid of immediately after installation) but I really don't use the buttons in the toolbars. I like to use the keyboard shortcuts (i.e. alt+home for home page, alt+left arrow for back, Esc. for stop, etc.) Actually, now that I think about it, I think I'll start surfing in full screen mode.
Posted by: Jordon on September 8, 2004 08:18 PMUm.. I like the go button... although I realize it can be easily added after installation.. I think it is a very handy button... and helps frame the address bar a bit more so that it looks more like an object on the bar instead of a cut out hole in the bar where text goes.
Posted by: larfnarf on September 9, 2004 12:56 AMHow about using IE as the history icon :)
Posted by: Luke Shingles on September 9, 2004 01:22 AMHow about using IE as the history icon :)
Posted by: Luke Shingles on September 9, 2004 01:24 AMPersonally, I think a more spaced layout like IE would benefit new users. Afterall, nearly all of them will be coming from IE. And I do agree with the other comment on here... a default Go button is a good idea. IE actually did add it in for a reason... some new users don't know to hit the Enter key.
Posted by: John T. Haller on September 9, 2004 01:57 AMI think toolbar and URL and search bar should be kept on one line, otherwise you are wasting a lot of space. Furthermore I think the current default is fine, I would just a New Tab and Bookmarks button. New Tab because that's a key feature of Firefox, and newbies won't discover this otherwise. Bookmarks, because it sometimes is very handy to have all your bookmarks in the sidebar. The home button can be removed I think, I never use it personally (search engine is my home page, and I use the search search field in Firefox for that).
Posted by: Freggy on September 9, 2004 02:15 AMbug 258577 is a enhancement suggestion to add a page in the custom installation process that would offer some choices of toolbars to the user... vote for it if you like the idea
Posted by: Mathieu Pellerin on September 9, 2004 03:18 AMOn the suggestions for placing bookmarks next to the main menu, I personally have tried it before but for me it looks too cluttered (and perhaps even stressing). I understand it's a psychological matter, just like preferring large icons. It just looks more roomy for me, and losing a line or two of text is no big deal.
Well, I prefer quick access to functions I use often over extra space for the pages I am on. I can always scroll (I have a "WebWheel"). An old old old screenshot of what my setup looks like (Yes, I still use 0.8).
I actually have more buttons up there now, than I do in that screenshot, although, I now have text under buttons turned off, with small buttons, and my bookmarks toolbar has only 3 items on it (2 commonly used ones, and a folder for bookmarklets).
Unfortunately, my laptop (which is what I use most of the time, and that screenshot is taken from) has temporarily died on me. So, I can't take a more recent shot, but there you have it.
CUOT:
I have 6 more gmail invites available to whoever wants them...
Posted by: Tristor on September 9, 2004 07:55 AMPlease, add the Go and New Tab button.
Posted by: gizmo on September 9, 2004 08:10 AMI wrote a post about this not too long ago called the minimalist firefox ui: basically i got rid of all the buttons due to my propensity for the keyboard navigation, just to see if i could take it.
it worked for a while until i got into one handed, non-laptop, mouse-only web browsing, in which case the back button is really really necessary.
after reading the first comment about the "go" button, i thought that it was lame, but i think there is some rationale for adding it to the default layout. more advanced users (like myself) will have no problem getting rid of the buttons we never use (like the forward button or a go button).
Posted by: justin on September 9, 2004 11:42 AMI put the Firefox 'back' button and other common buttons on the RIGHT (above [x] tab-close button and scrollbar), so my toolbar order is
[location-field] [search-field] [reload] [stop] [=>] [<=]
[BM] [HS]
Bookmarks [x] /tab\ /tab\ /tab\_____________________[x]
(I open each site or bookmark in a new tab, and I was tired of dragging my mouse to the opposite side of the window depending on whether I wanted to exit the page by closing the window or by backing up. Since I couldn't move the [x] close-tab button near the [<=] back button, I moved the [<=] back button near the [x] close-tab button.)
Putting the back-button on the right probably should not be the default configuration as it may be too unfamiliar for new users who use other browsers, but is a more efficient alternate configuration for power users who use the tab-close button frequently.
I put the [BM] bookmark and [HS] history buttons (they have nice small icons) in the thinner personal toolbar, so they are right above the sidebar which they open.
The personal toolbar is taller than necessary, its wasted space is plain when I want to see as much of a page as possible.
(View | Toolbars | Bookmarks toolbar)
(Bookmarks | Personal Toolbar Folder)
Should these two names for the same thing coverge to one name?
I just use the default arrangement on Small Icons, with one replacement - I exchange the home button for Resize from the Web Developer toolbar. Makes me happy...I think. :)
Posted by: painc on September 10, 2004 08:17 PMI really think that default layout should be changed. This is to cater for New users migrating from Internet Explorer. Those Tech-illiterate people will find difficulties adapting to Firefox's interface.
Experienced users can customize the toolbar at their will, so why complain?
The goal is to attract both experienced and new users!
This reminds me of those GAP commercials "How do you wear it?"
This is more like "How do you Firefox it?"
... or something like that.
Anyway, http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v55/Sykil/fflayout.jpg
Posted by: Sykil on September 11, 2004 03:43 PM
My layout is pretty close to current default with couple changes:
- large icons
- no bookmarks toolbar
Personaly, I rarly use icons, except for middle-clicking (I use MozFBRH extension, though PR has some of its funcionalities) and going back/forward for more than one page. That's why I am going to keep this layout.
Anyway, Asa, I guess that you are asking wrong people. You should ask IE users what they prefer, as they are now target group. I suggested their survey at http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=122836. All I can say is that Back and Forward combination of icons and text look ugly on your screenshot
Posted by: Ivan Icin on September 16, 2004 07:07 AMhttp://members.rogers.com/mromarkhan/DefaultConfig.png
First row
New tab is important so at the upper left.
Anything that opens a side bar is to the upper right
Second row standard back forward reload stop home imageShowHideLoad address bar search bar
Third row, important bookmarks toolbar, since drag and drop quicker than clicking menu items
Chrome changes, highlighted current tab since using windows me, highlight scrollbar, show title at the top, and have Apple Macintosh (TM) like scroll bars.
Extensions something to turn off images, a clock, and weather.
I discovered control plus minus to change font size so a font change toolbar
button is no longer important for me
it looks alot like this
http://img35.exs.cx/img35/3899/blog_adot_lookslike__communistsforkerrycom__.png
because it does look like that.
Posted by: CFK on September 28, 2004 06:32 AMIf you're really not happy with toolbars and buttons I suggest you head over to
and search for either "toolbar" or "button" in the firefox extensions subforum.
tweak on!
Posted by: CFK on September 28, 2004 06:33 AM