You all are simply the best community in the world. I can't believe that less than 48 hours into this effort, we're already half way to our goal of 1,000 reviews. I just checked the numbers and we're up to exactly 500 new reviews added since the effort commenced. That's simply amazing. Maybe I shouldn't be surprised, but wow!
This is how we're going to take back the web. They may have the money, but money can't buy love and we've got a product that people love. We've got a product that really does change the way people use the web. We've got a product that people are proud to stand up for.
You all have already made us the most reviewed product this week on all of download.com and we're making great progress in climbing in the overall standings. Let's keep this going so that we can be download.com's most reviewed product ever for Firefox 1.0!
It's time to push the message out past your immediate co-workers, classmates, friends and family. Start asking around to find those Firefox users you don't talk to regularly. Ask on your blogs, in your email lists, post to your bulletin boards and forums. If you've run out of people to ask for reviews, that means it's time to convert more IE users. We will hit 1,000 reviews. You all are unstoppable :D
Posted by asa at July 9, 2004 06:39 AMHi Asa
My solution to what you want to do is wait until Firefox can install over previous installations, if ever, since that's causing people the most trouble. Then on mozilla.org, link to download.com/firefox and don't tell anyone to review. If they love/hate it enough to review it, then let them.
From Blake Blog
>>Peter, I think you're wrong. The point of reviews at download.com is to give prospective downloaders the best possible information about the product so they can make an educated decision before downloading.
Having fanboys review your product isn't educated.
>>The Firefox community knows more about Firefox, it's features, it's capabilities, and yes, it's shortcomings. We are the ideal people to review Firefox and to tell people where it excels.
What makes you think the community will tell people of it's shortcomings?
>>They are not, as you say, looking for reviews from random people browsing around the site. They are looking for reviews from people who have downloaded (hopefully from them) the software and who want to tell others whether or not it's worth the download.
Yes, if they downloaded from download.com that would be fair. ICQ links to download.com so all the ICQ fanboys can review it. But Firefox fanboys download from mozilla.org so it's not fair to send an army of fanboys to a download site they didn't even download from. You should at least link to http://www.download.com/Mozilla-Firefox/3000-2356-10299359.html?tag=lst-0-1
>>We are not giving people a script to follow. We are not saying "give it rosey reviews." We are not telling people to go give negative reviews to the competition. We are simply asking people who have downloaded the Firefox software and used it, to go to download.com and tell other potential downloaders what they think of it -- good, bad, and ugly.
That's funny, you're trying to sound fair. Most of the people that come to your site are like "Firefox Rulezzzzz!!!!!" There are no regulars that have a fair/bad view of Firefox. Also, reading the reviews, someone has already noticed that Firefox is not getting "fair" reviews
"Look at the time of the reviews"
The time of all the reviews were posted are VERY VERY CLOSE to eachother alot within seconds or minutes. Very shaddy
"just a tease"
I got all hyped up about ditching IE and getting this "super" new browser! After reading about 40 glowing recommendations, I downloaded - saved - the setup file, then closed all other programs and ran the setup from the Start/Run. It seemed to "extract" okay, but then nothing happened. I waited. Nothing happened. I waited some more, the screensaver (mine) kicked in. I disabled the screensaver and ran the setup again. Extraction was okay, then nothing. I got tired of waiting. I pulled up Windows Explorer and launched the setup from there. Again extraction was okay, and again I waited. I deleted the setup file, and then went back online and downloaded it again, this time choosing "Open". The file downloaded and extracted, but nothing else happened. After doing a search, I found that there were no other files except a gif file and a cookie (besides the setup file) on my computer. I've come to the conclusion that there really is no such thing as "Firefox", and that all of the glowing reviews are fabricated. I had always had "negative" feelings about Mozilla in the past, but was willing to give this new product a try. Boy, was I taken! Apparently, you really do get exactly what you pay for! I paid nothing and I got nothing!
And then you have your useless reviews
"This is IE wants to be when it grows up"
"excellent browser"
good for day to day use
>>Download.com provides a reviewing mechanism for exactly that purpose and even if you don't approve of that, I don't see where you get to decide what their review mechanism is and isn't for.
It isn't good ethics to tell all your fans to invade a site they probably never been to. What if all of the Opera fans who don't regular download.com review Opera? Or all of the Adaware fans? Then all products would be up in the 90s since fans=a bunch of people, download.com=random people looking for random products
>>Also, your suggestion that it's a waste of time and that we should wait for 1.0 is just silly. Why? It didn't reset at 0.9.2 and we're already into the top five most reviewed products in all of download.com. This is making a difference and we should continue.
You are in the top 5 most reviewed yet you are the 45th most popular. Not exactly fair.
Why wait until 1.0? There are a lot in Mozillazine Firefox Support people that tell some users "It's 0.9, what do you expect?" To that I say, 0.9 and we still can't install over old install, still crashes, UI weirdness, 1.0 probably won't be much better, but at least the people that flame users won't have an excuse.
Posted by: Peter on July 9, 2004 08:11 AM>"It's 0.9, what do you expect?"
Yes, I'm waiting to see what they will say after Firefox 1.0 is launched. Many of the reviews I've seen say at one time or another "still isn't 1.0" as the reason to forgive its many faults, so all the excuses about being a preview will be gone.
I think that the fanboys will keep on with their blinding: "did you install this bunch of extensions?", "oh, but remember that the extensions aren't official", "yay, that's because extension xxx isn't 1.0 yet"
Efforts like this are what make Download.com a bad source for software reviews. Spaming of any kind is a no-no and it shames me to see Mozilla doing this.
Why doesn't Mozilla just direct people to download its products from Download.com so that it'll be the number one download, too? Not only will it rocket its way to the top, but you'll save on bandwidth when milestones are released.
Posted by: leo on July 9, 2004 09:53 AMhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing
Posted by: JP on July 9, 2004 10:24 AMI am deeply disappointed by the latest security problem in Mozilla. Looks like you guys are doing a very bad job by not acknowledging the problem that exists since 2 years. There are so many rants against IE here, but you guys don't even care to fix the problem for 2 years. I am using Firefox, but I guess I have to dump it because of security issues. At least I know that Microsoft is acting quicker.
http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=167475
clearly says that the problem was known since 2002. All that talk, all that rant are simply lies then. You are lucky that, media is covering your base, they don't even mention that the problem was there for 2 years. Hopefully my machine is not compromised. These days I was seriously considering to move my parents to Firefox, thank god I didn't have time to do it.
Posted by: John on July 9, 2004 11:14 AMre: Astroturf
I think that some of you guys are confused by the distinction between real grassroots and fake/astroturf.
Astroturfing for Mozilla would be to have/pay 10 guys to write hundreds of letters and reviews in different names to make it appear as if Mozilla has many supporters, or to have a website with a "one click to send a positive fax/email/letter to..." so that people who don't really support it much can extremely easily appear to do so.
But in this case, there really is a lot of people and Asa just directed them towards a goal, just like when MoveOn.org tells its supporters about an issue. People had to register with CNet and write their own review, and since they aren't getting paid, I doubt that it can be said that they were forced to write a positive one.
Get it?
Posted by: Mikhail Capone on July 9, 2004 12:35 PMYa know what would really drive those numbers through the roof? Get it posted to Slashdot. You'll have 10,000 before you can say "slashdot effect." :-)
>>With the advent of the internet, it has become easier to structure an astroturfing campaign because the cost and effort to email (especially a pre-written, sign your name at the bottom email) is so low. The pseudonymity of the Internet can be misused to enable one person to play the role of a whole group of like-minded people (see also sock puppet). At the same time, the internet makes it easier for people to compare notes, making it somewhat easier to expose an astroturfing campaign.
>>One technique of an astroturfing campaign is to induce a number of its supporters to write email, letters to the editor, blog posts, crossposts and trackbacks, in support of the campaign's goals. The campaign instructs the supporters on what to say, how to say it, and where to send it, and above all, to make it appear that their indignation, appreciation, joy, or hate is entirely spontaneous and independent – and thus "real" – and not at all the product of an orchestrated campaign.
Asa told many people to go to download.com, jack up the reviews, negative or positive, although we all know he wants them to be positive and he knows his visitors are mostly pro-fox. So now, Firefox is unfarily in the top 5 most reviewed yet 45th most downloaded. Also, it's old fair score of 80% is now a rediculously underserving 97%. I like Firefox, but it's not perfect. Again, what if all of the Opera fanboys reviewed Opera? Probably the same.
download.com is a centralized database of products that some people use to download all of their programs, and only those regulars should review it.
forums.mozillazine.org is a forum for discussing mozilla and only people who want to stay there should sign up. What if a whole bunch of Opera people invaded the forums after an Opera elite told them to flame Firefoxers?
Posted by: JP on July 9, 2004 03:58 PMRE: John
"Looks like you guys are doing a very bad job by not acknowledging the problem that exists since 2 years. There are so many rants against IE here, but you guys don't even care to fix the problem for 2 years."
Well, John, you've noticed the bug, but have you /read/ it? It was indeed opened on 2002-09-09 04:41 PDT, but if you will read comment #12 in said bug, posted 2002-10-11 00:26 PDT, you will see "this bug is much less urgent".
1 month, not 2 years.
Posted by: Neil Paris on July 9, 2004 04:44 PMAsa,
I've been a loyal Netscape User, even in those hard days of 2001 when hopes were getting dim.
If you haven't seen yet, I made a Firefox Switch site. I'm going to try to get some more reviews and post them on the switch site.. On saturday I hope to even have a domain setup for the switch campaign:
http://www.switch2firefox.com/
I've always been impressed with your work, and I hope that my contributions can go to some good use.
Thanks again!
Jakob Perry