birdies || MAIN || hacking for christ

April 18, 2004

rainy sunday

Since I haven't gotten around to doing an Ask Asa, I thought I'd try an Ask Asa's Readers instead :-)

I have a small inexpensive digital camera (the one I'm using to take all those bird photos). Today it was raining and fairly dark out and when I looked at the 400 or so photos I took this afternoon, almost all of them were a bit underexposed. That wouldn't be so bad except that I went through 8 double-A batteries shooting those photos.

Shooting the birds, I keep the camera on a lot and exercise it's zoom motor quite a bit so it really chews through the batteries. So here's my question, what's a good rechargeable battery solution?

My camera takes 4 double-A batteries. I don't know anything about rechargeable, how long they last, how long they take to charge, or even what they cost. I never go through a set (4) in less than about three hours so I suppose I need at least 8 batteries and a charger that can recharge in less than 3 hours -- if such a thing exists. Any help would be appreciated.

update: I realize now that it might have been helpful if I'd included information on my camera. It's a Canon PowerShot A60 and it takes 4 double-A batteries.

Normally I can get about 500 photos (or even more) by not using the LCD and keeping it turned off most of the time. When I'm shooting through my little telescope, though, I need the LCD and the setup is a bit painful so I keep it on a lot longer and under those circumstances, I chew through batteries after only two to three hundred pictures. I think I use the zoom quite a bit more, too, and that probably has some impact on battery life.

Thanks for all the tips so far. I think I'm off to a much more informed start in my hunt for a better solution than regular disposable batteries.

update2: is this a good deal? 24pk Rechargeable AA NiMh 2250mAh Batteries for $32 shipped.

Posted by asa at April 18, 2004 11:46 PM
Comments

Ni-MH rechargables are generally the way to go (don't buy the cheaper Ni-Cad batteries, they don't last as long and have a shorter overall lifetime). I don't know US prices but in the UK a half-decent charger and 4 batteries will set up back £20, I assume that'll be $30 US. Rechargables don't last as long as Alkaline single-use batteries but on my digital camera (a rather 'ancient' Fujifilm DX-10) I get about 2-3 hours usage on 4 batteries. The charger I have, which cost £10 (so $15) takes around 4 1/2 hours to charge, but I gather some more expensive chargers are quicker.

Switching to rechargables is well worth the money, if a little annoying when you pick up your camera to go out and take photos to realise the batteries are flat :). If you buy 2 sets of four you can always keep one set fully charged as a spare set in case the other set goes flat. And you'll be helping the environment by not dumping loads of batteries with their harmful chemicals.

Posted by: Neil T. on April 19, 2004 12:25 AM

The first thing you need to do is check your manual to see what kind of batteries your camera accepts. Some cameras are finicky.

There are two main type suitable for cameras are NiCad, and NiMh.

If your camera accepts it, you want to go with NiMh. They don't exhibit any kind of "memory effect" from partial discharging, they have good capacity, and cost are effective if you use the camera a lot. The main disadvantage of these is that they lose their charge quickly, so you can't charge them and let me sit around for 2 weeks.

Their performance can vary alot from brand to brand, you basically want to go for as high a mAh rating as you can find. The best of ones these days have a 2400mAh capacity. Check bhphotovideo.com for a host of different ones.

If you can't use NiMh, NiCad isn't a bad option either. They can exhibit a memory effect, but they don't discharge as fast and they have great flash reload performance (slightly better than NiMh, both rechargeable types are way better than alkaline). Last I chckec you could find NiCads at around 1500mAh.

Posted by: Ara Anjargolian on April 19, 2004 12:35 AM

I have 4 sets of NiMH batteries for my Olympus C4040Z (notorious for being battery hogs). On a day of heavy shooting, I'll go through two sets easily.

I keep the batteries numbered and in sets so I'm not mixing and matching batteries with different charge status. I have this notion (valid or not, I don't know) that this ought to be better for batteries, since all the batteries in a set are the same age and have the same charge level. That way I don't end up with one or more batteries with a partial charge sucking juice from the other fully charged ones.

I usually keep at least two sets of batteries in my case with a fresh charge (the third being dead from use already, and the 4th in my camera). The charged batteries I keep in a separate compartment of my case so I don't have to remeber which ones are charged and which ones I just drained.

I use a Radio Shack 8 hour charger, although I've used the RS 1 hour charger on occasion. I tend to stay away from the short time period chargers because batteries usually tend to come out of them scorching hot.

Posted by: imabug on April 19, 2004 05:26 AM

Jeff, in e-mail says:

Does anyone know how the Lithium Ion rechargables compare to the Ni-MH?

Also, I've been told some of the rechargables don't supply a full 1.5V that an alkaline battery does, and that some digital cameras won't work well due to that difference. Any knowledge on that? (yeah, I know this isn't the place to ask this advice, but Asa started it!

Posted by: Asa Dotzler on April 19, 2004 10:00 AM

I selected my camera (Canon PowerShot A70) for its AA battery form factor over the other proprietary rechargeables (usually lithium ion). I agree w/ the others - NiMH works great. I have been using them for quite some time with wireless mice and they're even better in a camera. I despise NiCads. They have "memory" (see below) and they're toxic.

Let me add that the charger is key. My camera is very sensitive to differences in charge state between batteries, i.e. if one is a little more discharged than the others then I can quickly wind up with the camera going dead. Most chargers can only charge batteries in pairs, but you will want one that can independently charge each battery. The only charger I have found that will do this is the Kodak MAX K2000.

Finally, all batteries will slowly lose charge over time, so if you have multiple sets of NiMH AA rechargeables you will want to keep them charged up. This does not result in the "memory" problems that you will have with NiCads.

Posted by: Tim Maddux on April 19, 2004 10:05 AM

that's right, NiCa and NiMh only have 1,2 Volt, a normal battery has 1,5 Volt, but normally 1,2 Volt should be ok, too (but notice, here the difference is 8x0,3; so might be a problem). Lithium Ion rechargables would need some hacking, because one cell has 3,6-3,7 Volt. So 8 AA batteries have 8x1,5=12 Volt. That would mean you need 12/3,6=3 1/3 Lithium Ion rechargables *g*, so that's probably not possible. You could also assume 1,4 Volt per cell would be enough, that would mean you need 3 Lithium Ion rechargables. But then you need to put them together with wires or something, not very good.
For fast loading of rechargables i recommended a battery charger where you can enter the capacity of the rechargables, then these will charge very fast normally.

Posted by: mcsmurf on April 19, 2004 12:21 PM

oh sorry, thought 8 batteries and not 4. Ok then you would need to calculate differently (4x1,5=6 Volt; you can't get to anything near 6 Volt with Lithium Ion, sorry, since the Voltage of one Lithium Ion cell as stated above is 3,6-3,7 Volt)

Posted by: mcsmurf on April 19, 2004 12:25 PM

Well, the type of batteries you use depends on what you are doing. From my own research, you are doing two of the "really bad things", thatis, leaving it on a lot, and using the zoom/focus motor a lot.

For rechargables, NiMH or Lithium Ion are good. However, rechargeables don't give much warning (read, zero warning) when they run out of charge.

The best option (AFAIK) is to use rechargables and have some Lithium batteries (non-rechargable) as backup.

Check out http://www.nikonians-images.com/ebooks/Nikonians%20Battery%20Guide.pdf
which is where I found a lot of useful info (just ignore the Nikon references if you use a different brand of camera).

Posted by: David King on April 19, 2004 02:27 PM

From Jason, via e-mail:

Working in a camera service centre I see this problem all the time. The zooming isn't the major factor in the battery drain. It's the LCD. Avoid using the LCD if at all possible. I always recommend using the LCD just for reviewing purposes.
NiMH batteries are a must in my opinion. No memory etc... You can get a charger that will charge them in about a half hour. But for that you're looking at about $80cdn. We sell an Energizer 30 minute charger for about $30.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000DIIAS/102-9213014-5580110?v=glance

As for the underexposed pictures. As you said. It was dark and rainy. In my experience anything beyond 15 feet with a digital camera you are going to need "near perfect" lighting conditions. And that's with the Optical Zoom. A digital zoom is another thing on it's own as the camera is just "guessing" what the image should look like.

Hope this helps :)

Jason

Posted by: Asa Dotzler on April 19, 2004 05:47 PM

from udo via email (again, sorry about the commenting problems. kerz says he's going to look into it when he has some free time).

LiIon's are the most advanced one's, with high capacity and high lifetime. But they need extra care when recharging, and because of that they're usally only available with a built-in chip separately adjusted for each LiIon cell. I dont think that they're available in standard AA form.

Cheers,

udo

Posted by: Asa Dotzler on April 19, 2004 05:48 PM

Definitely go for the NIMH batteries. Avoid those trashy duracell ultras or energizer titanium batteries, they're worthless for what you want to do.

Brand doesn't really matter either, though I've been buying a lot of Rayovac batteries since they tend to show up on sale at compusa every once in a while. For digital cameras, I think a 1600mAh is a minimum, with 2000 being better :) It doesn't really matter though, if you have 1300mAh all it means is that you'll have to swap out the batteries a little more often, with isn't so horrible.

look at http://www.thomasdistributing.com/ for a lot of batteries, I think the Maha brand are pretty good but also a little premium.

Posted by: Albert on April 19, 2004 09:11 PM

I highly recommend the new 15-minute rechargable rayovacs.

15 minute recharging is just lovely.

http://rayovac.com/products/recharge/recharge.shtml

Posted by: inertia on April 20, 2004 12:38 AM

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